Why Empathy Wins: Joe Charley On Art, Community, And Courage

What if kindness isn’t a bonus trait but the backbone of how we build, lead, and create? We sit down with Minneapolis-based multidisciplinary artist Joe Charley—model, actor, musician, choreographer—to explore how empathy becomes skill, how structure unlocks flow, and why tenderness is a form of courage in high-stakes spaces.

Joe traces his journey from child performer to intentional creator, sharing the moment he stopped trying to outgrow his past and started forgiving it. That self-empathy, he says, saved him from shame and freed him to practice with focus. He explains how acting taught him that every character believes they’re right, a lesson that transformed how he argues and collaborates: listen first, find the missing piece, then move together. Along the way, we dive into community care as three working parts—structure, joy, and accountability—and how he turns that into real opportunities for young people through organized troupes, deadlines, and stages that treat them like teammates, not tokens.

We also talk about curiosity as fuel: not just travel, but everyday exploration—new foods, neighborhood conversations, the stories behind small businesses—that becomes choreography, melody, and story on stage. Joe critiques spaces that perform progress without tenderness and shares a sharper frame: compassion isn’t optional; compassion is infrastructure. Without it, systems collapse. He opens up about projects on the horizon, from singing the national anthem in St. Paul to a summer of new music, and names his north star for audiences: leave feeling seen, energized, and less alone, like you just spoke with someone not trying to win.

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“Intro music: ‘Human First’ by Mike Baker – YouTube Music: https://youtu.be/wRXqkYVarGA | Podcast: Still Here, Still Trying | Website: www.mikebakerhq.com”

Transcript

Welcome And Mission Of Kindness

SPEAKER_01 0:22

Welcome to the Timest Matters podcast. The timest can change the world. People with organizations making a constant difference in the community. And connect tests. This podcast is about 45 stories. It's about 200x. To hotel concentrations. If the messages are showing updates with you, feet chairs with your friends and family. Because when it comes to kindness, the ripple effect is limitless. Hey, hello, and welcome everybody to the show. Thank you so, so much. Um you're listening. Well, you probably know who you're listening to, but in case you don't, maybe you just hit it. And um you're listening to the Kindness Matters podcast. I'm your host, Mike Rathbun, and I thank you, thank you, thank you for being here. Um we all have only so many hours in the day, and and the fact that you chose to use some of your time to listen to this podcast um really means something to me, and I appreciate it. And so thank you. Um, so today we're gonna be following up on uh we'll be doing another in the series of podcasts that I've been doing or episodes that I've been doing about how things like kindness and empathy and compassion are oftentimes seen as weak or or something negative, and and we're pushing back on that. And uh we're pushing back on that today with my guest. Um, he is here to prove that kindness is actually a superpower of the strong. Joe Charlie has spent his life navigating high-stakes environments where resilience and boldness aren't just encouraged, they're required. From his early days of overcoming personal hurdles to his current work empowering others to live um authentically, Joe has seen firsthand that true strength isn't about how loud you can shout, but how much you can lift each other up. He is a storyteller, a leader, and a man who believes that bold and being kind are two sides of the same coin. Today we're diving into why kindness is a competitive advantage, how to stay centered in a chaotic world, and why the bravest thing you can do today is be genuinely kind. Welcome to the show, Joe Charlie. Hello, thanks for having me. Thanks for being kind enough to have me. Yes, well done. I see what you did there. Um so now, Joe, you are you have so many hyphens um after your name, right? You're you're uh you're uh a model, uh, an actor. Uh have you done you've done some other work in film, I think, as well, besides acting, right? Yes. You're a music, you're a musician. Uh wow. That's a lot.

SPEAKER_00 4:09

Yeah, I um I consider myself just a multidisciplinary artist in general. It an artist in general, I just do more performing art if we get specific. I don't draw, I don't do jewelry, I don't weld. But those are arts too, but I perform.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

Okay. All right. Excellent. Um and so speaking of acting, uh, a lot of people see actors in general uh as naturally confident people, right? Um but you shared moments of vulnerability and and reinvention in your stories. Um how has empathy for your own growth shaped the artist that you become?

SPEAKER_02 4:55

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 4:57

Good segue. Good question.

SPEAKER_00 5:00

Like how I did that? I see, I see. Uh I I think I used to I used to think growth meant outgrowing who I was. And now I more understand it as forgiving who I was. Oh. Forgiving what I didn't know, forgiving what I had yet to understand, and just giving myself a lot more uh self-empathy saved me from shame. Yeah. Especially being a child performer and navigating that world, uh, and being mostly in other people's stories as a character, reinventing myself musically, where now it's my story coming out and me saying it, it's me giving myself empathy and allowing myself to feel life as it comes naturally.

Vulnerability, Growth, And Self‑Empathy

SPEAKER_01 5:43

Yeah, perfect. Yeah, giving yourself some grace, as it were. Yeah. Yeah. So now you I uh we probably should explain. You grew up and still live in Minneapolis, right? Yes. And and you started modeling at a pretty young age.

SPEAKER_00 6:01

Yeah, I was about three. Three four. Yeah. So right before the 2000s, I was already in front of the camera and already already working.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

Wow. And then and then that led that work led to how did that lead to acting?

SPEAKER_00 6:21

Yeah, um, entertainment is just a very uh relationship-based business. So you'll go to performance and you'll meet people from different walks of life and different different avenues, and they'll need a model, they'll need a singer, they'll need a dancer. And I was just drawn to the performance of art and not afraid of the audience, and not afraid of uh yeah, just not afraid of the the stage and the spotlight, but also having the ability to remember all of those things, I think was a really huge gift as a kid, was that I had a very good memory, and I just was able to remember blocking and choreography and uh lines and just whatever I needed to remember to be able to do the job, and I got really good at it. And I see that people really like people really respond to it. They like it because they see themselves. So I um I got more serious into acting, into modeling, into performing in high school. Um, I went to Main Street School of Performing Arts in Hopkins, Minnesota. Sure. And then I really focused in on like if this is something I want to do for a career, let me find some training and the networks to be able to do it. And I've been blessed enough to be able to get mentors and to be mentored and to understand the entertainment business and not just the entertainment entertainment.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

Yeah, yeah. Because there is a difference, right? Yes. For sure. Um when when you and you've done multiple interviews. Um Canvas Rebel, and then there was what's the newest one? Bull Journey? Yes, that yeah, it just came out. Perfect. Um, we'll have links to those interviews in the show notes. Um, but in those interviews you often highlight the importance of community, and we're just kind of I think we kind of touched on that. The community of the entertainment community, for example. What does community care look like to you and how does it show up in your daily life?

SPEAKER_02 8:33

Oh, um structure, joy, and accountability is community care for me.

SPEAKER_00 8:44

Oh wow, wow. So structure being. Oh yeah, one of my favorite quotes is that you you you need limits to be limitless.

SPEAKER_01 8:57

Ooh, I like that.

Community Care: Structure, Joy, Accountability

SPEAKER_00 8:59

Yeah, I I just I've carried it with me. I forgot where I got it from, but I carried carried it with me since childhood and just remembered that structure is a huge part of it. A huge huge part of anything. It's not just doing it just to do it, but structure creates the discipline that you need. Um concrete examples from my own life is just that taking the acting and the dance experience and the modeling, and I've volunteered with America Reads and Opportunity Youth Network and the boys and girls clubs of Minnesota to be able to bring them what I do, what I was trained to do, but in a structured, organized way so that it's not just me randomly popping up with them, but hey, we're starting a dance troupe. They have a gala coming up, they would like us to perform, and you all have an interest. So let's try to make something happen here. Um Community Care is really like when someone's gift is protected long enough to bloom, I would say.

SPEAKER_01 9:54

I love that. I love that. I was gonna ask you where the where the quote came from, and I now you told me you don't remember, so but we won't ask that question.

SPEAKER_00 10:05

Yeah, I I can't remember where it came from, but I just I just kept the sentiment with me. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 10:13

Um so when we're talking about and and I think you touched on it there, uh, about identity. Um when it comes to identity and belonging and and sometimes you you felt like you've um you've had to navigate spaces where you you didn't always feel seen, right? How did empathy from yourself or others help you stay grounded in in who you are in those situations?

SPEAKER_00 10:51

I stopped trying to be seen and I started to focus on seeing. Ooh, that's a good one. Yeah, empathy helped me stay rooted in my ancestry. Um, helped me honor my father, care for my mother, and build I don't even want to say fans, um a community of supporters, of witnesses. I call them angels, my Charlie's angels. The community of people who are who are there for you, who understand it, who get it, uh, who understand what it means to be both bold and sensitive. I love that. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

Yeah, because uh and I I have never been in the entertainment industry. Um, so I mean look at this. Come on. Um I guess a a lot of people probably don't identify with that, but yeah, i I would imagine it takes Here I go, I'm gonna say it takes a village, really. Doesn't it? Because nobody does it alone.

SPEAKER_02 12:00

Yeah. Yeah. I agree.

SPEAKER_00 12:05

That's where I guess the structure comes in the community because like you said, you might not be an entertainment, but you have the experience that you do have to create the structure where it might not exist, where there might be someone hoping or willing or just waiting for the chance, but they need the structure. And that's where I love to step in and to be able to help navigate what that is.

Belonging Through Seeing Others

SPEAKER_01 12:28

That's fantastic. And and I I love the fact that you work with the boys and girls clubs and um and the the theater operations. You you do work with I think you mentioned it when you were talking about getting a troop together to do a performance for a gala. Um and so do you do you choreograph all that? You have you been called on to do that?

SPEAKER_00 12:56

I do. That's um so my mind, and I understand it's a little, it's a lot for a lot, it's a lot. It's it's a lot, so it's a lot of hypens, it's a lot to keep up with. Um, I get inspiration by living. I meet new people, I have conversations, I travel, I try new foods, I try new environments, new events, and I get inspiration just to be able to um how can I interpret this through body, through movement, through sound, through performance. So when I say that I'm performance artists and people like, what does that mean? Like I I l it's it's involving the audience, but it's being a conduit of all of the influences that I have. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 13:39

Yeah. Because I really do think that that what you were and you were just talking about it right there. Um trying new things, traveling not everybody can travel, you know, not everybody can hop a plane and go to another country and experience that culture, but but just getting out of our own bubbles um and and experiencing um whether it's you know, a new restaurant and you know, maybe uh a Liberian restaurant or or what have you, uh I don't know, Ethiopian something like that, something that you might enjoy, but until you try it, you never really know. And I really I I I think it would be so helpful for the world if you could go into those spaces and and talk to the people maybe the people who started the restaurant, you know, learn their backgrounds, learn where they came from, learn what they had um and and why they do what they do. And I think I think the world would be so much better if we could all do that, you know, once, once a month, even, you know.

SPEAKER_00 14:59

I definitely agree that um acting teaches you about human behavior. That's what human behavior teaches me about acting. That's what I love to experience because um acting has taught me that no one villain thinks they're a villain. Right? Everyone just decide in their head uh hurt people, defend before they listen. Like every character believes they're right. Um and that's how I changed how I argue in real life. Oh, really? And being able to just listen to people and seeing where they come from, going into their environments and trying new food, trying new experiences, and that it feeds the community care, which feeds the empathy, which feeds the kindness. Yeah. So I it it all feeds into each other. I'm connected to it. Yeah. You got it.

Curiosity, Culture, And Human Behavior

SPEAKER_01 15:50

And I mean, getting back to the topic of the show, some people still treat uh compassion as optional, right? Um, something nice to have. What's your response to that mindset?

SPEAKER_00 16:05

Yeah, I've um I've seen to I've seen art spaces that tokenize or policy conversations that become dehumanizing or activism without tenderness. Um is the difference, I would say, between misusing people and using people, or using people and building with people. My dad used to always tell us that we are all here to use each other. But when we get to misusing and abusing each other, that's where we mess up.

SPEAKER_01 16:37

Yeah, because I think you hear the term use somebody and automatically seems negative, but like you make you said there are different gifts.

SPEAKER_00 16:45

Like I might be good at entertaining, you might be good at architecture. There are different lanes for everyone. So that's why I'd say compassion is an optional. Compassion is literally infrastructure. It's without it, systems collapse. Ooh, I love that. I like I'm a poet in front of the book. I love being a convict because the the conversations help the inspiration.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

Through your acting, um, what's something, and I think you just kind of touched on it right there. What's something you've learned about human behavior through acting that you wish more people understood when interacting with each other? And I think you basically just answered that question before I ever even said it.

SPEAKER_00 17:30

Because it's all interconnected, you know? Right, right. It's that's literally um, yeah, that every character believes that they're right. And just that listening can take you a lot further than just because you're gonna be right in your head, someone is gonna be right in their head, but just listening and seeing it, uh that's why that's why I say I changed how I argue because it's not just me being like something is missing for there to be an argument, there's a piece missing.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

Yeah, for sure. So are uh have you got any projects coming up?

Compassion As Infrastructure

SPEAKER_00 18:04

I do. I'm working on a lot of projects right now, working on uh working on music projects mostly, but I will be back on stage soon. I yeah, I'll be back on stage pretty soon. But I am singing the national anthem at the tw at the St. Paul Saints game, May 14th. Oh, perfect! Yeah, so that's a that you can have and you can come and see, and then the weekend after we will be releasing my music for the summer, and I will be performing all summer long. Oh wow, wow.

SPEAKER_01 18:36

So what do you what do you hope people feel when they encounter your work, whether it's on stage or on screen, through your music? What what do you hope that they feel when they hear that or see it?

SPEAKER_00 18:55

I want people to feel like they just had a conversation with someone who wasn't trying to win. I like that. Not impressed, but seen held, energized, brave, less alone.

SPEAKER_02 19:12

I like it. I like it a lot.

SPEAKER_01 19:15

Um So wrapping up here What is one kind one act of kindness, big or small, that changed the trajectory of your life?

SPEAKER_02 19:32

Oh I think you have to think back.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

Yeah, yeah. That could go always, because I mean, being that you started when you were so young in modeling.

SPEAKER_00 19:44

I would say I would give it there. Let's make it easy.

unknown 19:48

Okay.

Projects, Performances, And Hopes For Audiences

SPEAKER_00 19:49

Thank Joe. Um my parents, my mother and my father for naming me with intention. Oh, really? My name means um he will add a free man. God will add a free man. And this is how I I share love, I share kindness, empathy freely, because I feel that way, and I would love other people to feel that so we can build something greater. So I would say that would be the first act that changed. That would be the very first one.

SPEAKER_01 20:15

You weren't even aware of it at the time. I know, isn't that it did? It changed the track trajectory of your life, though, didn't it?

SPEAKER_00 20:22

Definitely.

SPEAKER_01 20:24

Fantastic. Oh, I Joe, thank you so much for coming on today. I really, really, really appreciate it. I wish you so much success going forward. Thank you. And um, yeah, we'll be in touch soon.

SPEAKER_02 20:38

Talk so thanks for having me. Take take care.

unknown 20:42

Bye.

A Defining Act Of Kindness And Close

SPEAKER_01 20:51

Thanks so much for hanging out with us for today's episode of the Kindness Matters Podcast with my guest, Joe Charlie. I really appreciate you tuning in and seeing part of this kindness community talk. If you like what you heard, leaving a quick review or comment really helps others to find a show and it means a lot to me personally. Make sure you follow us also on uh our totals, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, uh, United With there. And hey, if you don't support it by technically, that's totally okay. The best way to support a code is to go out and do one method active for a 20. But if you are at it out of code, you can make a one time gift of doing 1.18 support of current over on 58 to link the center total. Brand new episode. But until then, remember, kindness matters. And so do you.