Strength Through Compassion

Compassion gets called a “soft skill,” but what if it’s the hardest form of strength? We sit down with Tammy Ward, a former RCMP leader who spent 24 years across federal, provincial, and municipal policing—from major crimes to remote northern posts—to unpack how empathy saves relationships, reduces conflict, and sustains teams in the toughest moments. Tammy shares clear, lived examples of de‑escalation through listening and presence, including why speaking with rather than at people can prevent force and build trust that lasts beyond a single call.

The conversation goes deep on leadership after trauma. Tammy recounts the aftermath of a line‑of‑duty tragedy that killed three officers and injured two, and how she was asked to steady the team through grief. Her approach defied the old “suck it up” script: small human gestures, honest language about pain and suicide, and a culture where asking for help signals courage, not weakness. We also dive into domestic violence response—the danger, the complexity, and the power of survivor‑centered communication. Gender dynamics, team agreements, and matching the right responder to the moment come into focus as practical, repeatable tools.

We challenge the burnout myth that compassion drains you. Tammy argues that silence—not softness—breaks people, and that self‑compassion plus peer support protects performance over time. You’ll hear how to spot early disengagement, why naming suicide matters for real change, and what it takes to build workplaces where rank isn’t confused with leadership. If you care about human‑centered leadership, psychological safety, and trauma‑aware teams, this conversation offers direct, usable steps you can apply today. If the message resonates, share it with a friend, subscribe for more, and leave a review to help others find the show.

This podcast is a proud member of the Mayday Media Network — your go-to hub for podcast creators. Whether you’re just starting a podcast and need professional production support, or you already host a show and want to join a collaborative, supportive podcast network, visit maydaymedianetwork.com

Still Changing a World: Small Acts of Kindness That Make a Big Difference invites you to notice the quiet, everyday moments where you can change someone’s day—and maybe their life. If you’re feeling overwhelmed by outrage and noise but still believe in human connection, this book will encourage you to keep showing up with courage, compassion, and practical kindness. Grab your copy here:

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Intro music: ‘Human First’ by Mike Baker – YouTube Music: https://youtu.be/wRXqkYVarGA | Podcast: Still Here, Still Trying | Website: www.mikebakerhq.com 

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

RCMP 101 And Career Scope

SPEAKER_01 1:29

Hey, hello, and welcome everybody to the show. Thank you. Thank you so much for being here. Um, and I I've been saying this a lot lately, and I really, really mean it. I mean, we all as people, as moms, as dads, as as human beings have a lot going on in our lives right now. And the fact that you chose to spend the limited amount of time that you have today purposefully listening to this podcast really, really, really makes me happy and really, really, really makes me feel great grateful. And I appreciate each and every one of you that tuned in. Um, thank you so much. And uh we have uh a fantastic show for you. I'm really, really excited. How many times can I say the word really? In one 30-minute, 30-second. Yeah. Okay. Um, my guest today is Tammy Ward. And Tammy served for 24 years with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police across Canada, all the way across in every province, I'm guessing, pretty close, maybe. Um, in general duty, major crime, domestic violence, and community relations. Uh, she now transforms lived experience into practical language that helps people communicate openly. Leaders respond with confidence, and stigma is replaced with support. Welcome to the show today. Cami Ward, thank you so much for being here.

SPEAKER_02 3:16

Thank you for having me.

Redefining Strength After Trauma

SPEAKER_01 3:18

And the crowd goes wild. Uh no, I I really do. I talking to you before was was really so eye-opening. Um and and I think we're really gonna have a good conversation because for those of you that listen to the podcast on a regular basis, we've been doing kind of a series now. Um and and what we're doing is pushing back, I wanna say we're pushing back on the notion that compassion or empathy or kindness are soft skills or not needed or unnecessary or you know, fluff if you can if you can afford to fit them in somewhere. And that's really not the case, right?

SPEAKER_00 4:12

Not at all. So uh talk to me a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 4:19

Oftentimes in your talks, because you're a public speaker. I I think I mentioned that, but maybe not. That's what you do now. You're a public speaker, and oftentimes you talk about resilience and how does compassion play a role in building resilience, both personally and professionally.

SPEAKER_02 4:42

Well, for me, that was, I think a lot of it has to do with my upbringing. I mean, the way my parents brought me up, I don't see anybody as better than somebody else, regardless of whether you have money or not, or what color, what gender, whatever. Um, I judge people on if you're nice or not. That's my standard. And I think if we use that standard, we'd be in a lot better place in our world. Uh, as a police officer, I can tell you firsthand, some of the people that I've dealt with that most people would look down on are some of the kindest human beings I've met. Whereas some of the people who, for some reason or another, we look up to because they have the fancy cars and the nice suits were some of the meanest, most arrogant people that I ever met. For example, I had a man yell at me once when I pulled him over and asked me if I knew who the beep he was. And my answer was, no, do you know who I am? And he didn't appreciate my sense of humor. But uh it just goes to show that it doesn't matter, like kindness, it can go so far.

SPEAKER_01 5:52

Right, for sure. I and you know what? I dived right into the questions, and and maybe it would help our our audience a little bit um to figure out where you're coming from. Talk to me about your 24 years. That's a that seems like a long time in the RCMP.

SPEAKER_02 6:11

Yeah, it's a long time in service.

Empathy As A De‑Escalation Skill

SPEAKER_01 6:16

So now for those of us that don't live in Canada, can you explain a little bit about what the RCMP is? Is it like the American FBI or just with fancier redder clothes?

SPEAKER_02 6:32

Kind of. Um, no, we are like the FBI in the terms that we handle all federal statutes across Canada, just like the FBI does in the United States. The difference is that we also do provincial as well as municipal policing contracts. So you could work, for example, you could work in a federal drug unit that could be anywhere in Canada or even overseas. And you could, like me, be up in Nunavut and in a little Inuit village of approximately 400 people. So we work everywhere across Canada. There's only two provinces that have their own provincial police forces, which is Ontario and Quebec, but other than that, we cover all across Canada.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

Okay. So now do you so for like smaller towns that maybe didn't have the budget to hire a police force, you guys would step in in that role. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_02 7:34

Exactly. Yes. Any of our larger cities in Canada, they all have their own municipal police forces, just like in the United States.

SPEAKER_01 7:43

Yeah. And here where I live, we're a small town city. Um and we just don't have the budget. So we contract out with um a county sheriff to do our policing.

SPEAKER_00 7:57

Same sort of thing, I guess. Uh so when you I'm sorry.

Leading After A Line‑Of‑Duty Tragedy

SPEAKER_01 8:11

Okay, so you have transitioned from frontline policing to speaking on resilience and mental wellness. Have your has your between those times, policing and speaking, has your definition of strength evolved?

SPEAKER_02 8:32

Oh, definitely, definitely. I before I left my career in policing, I had a couple of roles where I was doing a lot of public speaking. I was the officer in charge of Crime Stoppers for our province. So I was doing a lot of public speaking, making commercials, etc. And then with the domestic violence portfolio, I was doing a lot of teaching, public speaking. So the speaking part isn't new to me. It's just, I was at a point in my career I'd had some really bad things happen. And as a result of that, I have PTSD. And I just got to a point where I realized that I could still help people without wearing a uniform. And I made a decision to retire. And then I just started, well, I retired in time for COVID. Uh, what a way to start a speaking career. Hello, you can stay home with your dog.

SPEAKER_01 9:32

Right? Did did some of the speaking, most a lot of the speaking gigs just went viral or viral, not viral, um, online, right?

SPEAKER_02 9:40

Yes. So I did do a lot of that when I had the opportunities. That was interesting. I got to speak in some places that I haven't even been to physically ever. So that was, you know, interesting. I spoke at a a conference in Utah, which was put on by a social worker that I had met through a previous event. And yeah, so it's just trying to get myself out there now so that people know who I am and get to go and speak to people live. I find um person to person is so much easier than on a screen. Because on a screen, it's like you're almost not real. Yeah, you only get you know, each address from the waist up and uh pajama bottoms on the bottoms or what have you? Yoga pants.

SPEAKER_01 10:31

Yeah, yoga pants, that works too. That's fair. Um so when you were in your 20 years, 20 plus years uh of leadership, how did practicing empathy impact your did it did it strengthen your ability to lead?

Suicide, Stigma, And Speaking Up

SPEAKER_02 10:52

I think it did. Um, for example, as a police officer, I can count on one hand the number of physical altercations I actually get into because of my ability to talk with people and de-escalate situations instead of walking in with some complex or I'm better or I'm bigger, which I'm not, I'm little. But without any of that, when you meet people where they are and you talk with and not at, or sometimes people when they are in crisis, the last thing they want is to listen to somebody talking at them. Sometimes they just need to, I'm here, I will listen, just don't swear at me. And that just the ability to say, I will listen to you, can totally change a situation.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

Um and and I think that's kind of a theme I I keep coming back to in the show is is just the ability to be there, be present, right? And to listen can make all of the difference.

SPEAKER_02 12:08

Oh, definitely. And then the other thing for me, um, near the end or the latter part of my career, I was we had a shooting. Uh, we have five officers shot, three fatal, and I ended up taking over the team the men were killed on as their operational NCO, which meant I was dealing with a lot of people that had never policed in that area coming in as replacements, and then the people who were on shift during the shooting slowly coming back. And I was the girl who was just there supposedly for two weeks, um, because I was there during the incident. That two weeks got extended to a month. That month got extended to can you stay for three more months? And I asked the inspector at the time, I'm like, why me? Like, there's other people with my rank and you know, with experience and even more operational experience than me. And he said, It's not the experience I need. He said, I saw what you did yesterday, and I was like, Oh gosh, what did I do? And he said, When I looked in Bulpin, he said, I saw you speaking with this member who had just come back, and his best friend was one of the men that were murdered. And when I was speaking to him, I didn't even know I did it. But I had my hand on his back and I was rubbing his back as I was talking with him because you know, he's six foot something, so he was seated and I was standing. And he said, People in our career don't do that. And he goes, I also heard a rumor that you offer the guys hugs. And I'm like, Oh yeah, I do do that sometimes. And the men will come in my office and close the door and talk to me. So what I did was totally outside the norm of policing, where you know, suck it up, buttercup, me strong, rah, rah, rah, to do you need a hug? Do you want to come talk? And that was what they needed there was that, you know, soft skill. But it's it's the compassion. It's like, I see you. You don't have to pretend that this isn't affecting you because honestly, if it's not affecting you, there's something wrong with you.

SPEAKER_01 14:16

Good point. Very good point. Yeah, if you can step away from that and just not be affected, yeah, then then it's time to worry, right?

unknown 14:26

Yeah.

Domestic Violence Realities And Risks

SPEAKER_01 14:27

It sounds like that that leader um kind of knew uh the value of compassion or empathy. Have you ever had any leaders say to you, you know, or who might worry that showing compassion might undermine their authority?

SPEAKER_02 14:47

Oh yes.

SPEAKER_01 14:49

Just be is it just natural because of the work that that you were doing?

SPEAKER_02 14:53

Is that kind of a heavily I think it's just the bravado of, you know, like you don't talk about certain things, um, which is why I want to talk about these things, because there's so many police officers in Canada and the US that die by suicide as opposed to in the line of duty. And that is that statistic needs to change. Like, if we can't even call it what it is, like that is my biggest pet peeve with my former agency, off-duty incident, unexpected death. No, call it what it is, because when we don't call it what it is, it keeps that shame, it keeps the quiet, like you can't talk about it because it's shameful. And that's why people are dying, and that's why I want to talk about it because the more silent we are and stoic, the more people are suffering. And I went through that and then you know, worked my way through it. And that's why I want other people to know it's okay not to be okay, and it takes more strength to ask for help than it does to be quiet.

SPEAKER_01 16:06

It absolutely does. You're absolutely right. Um, I I can't even imagine five team members.

SPEAKER_00 16:13

Yes. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 16:17

And when I I was looking over your your information, you worked a lot in um domestic violence.

SPEAKER_02 16:26

Yes, I did.

SPEAKER_01 16:29

That to me is probably one of the most heartbreaking jobs. And it it's also for a law enforcement officer to respond to a domestic violence, that's one of the most dangerous, is it not?

SPEAKER_02 16:43

By far. By far. A lot of victims, when they call or their children call, and they just want the violence to stop. They don't want their husband or their father to be hurt or arrested, and they just want it to stop. So sometimes what can happen is the victim actually turns against the police.

SPEAKER_01 17:05

Oh my gosh. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 17:08

And sometimes you don't know what you're walking into either. You don't know how physical it is, you don't know if there's weapons in the house, if he has a knife, like you're going in blind a lot of times.

SPEAKER_01 17:23

Right. For sure. And that's what makes it so dangerous, is because you don't know what you're gonna walk into. W was your ability to be empathetic or compassionate, was it helpful in those situations?

Team Agreements And Gender Dynamics

SPEAKER_02 17:39

Oh how do you do that? Um, I have my own experience, so I relate very well with give away any trade seekers. No, um, I've gone through it. So I'm so sorry. I can speak to women on a level that I understand. And I've actually had a woman once who was very irate and wasn't gonna talk and everything else. And I told her, I'm I understand. And she started to go off on me until she looked at me, and then she stopped and she said, Oh, I'm sorry. And I said, No, this is about you today. And she opened up and she talked to me because she saw me not as somebody in authority or somebody looking down, but somebody that was more of an equal. And when I say I understood, I could understand. And that created that, you know, equality and safety for her to speak. And I think also being a woman creates a better dialogue. And no offense to any men, I've worked with some amazing men that are beautiful souls and would do anything to help another human. But if you are a woman who was just hurt or violated by a man, the last thing you want to do is sit with another man and tell them what was done to you. So there's that safety, the, you know, that womanhood bond that some women, they're more likely or hopefully it's easier for them to open up and not feel judged or feel lesser or any of those things.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

Right. Right. Yeah. No, and uh that makes perfect sense. Are there a lot of female law enforcement doing that kind of job or or working in that particular field of law enforcement? I mean I I I can't imagine because it seems to me that law enforcement is a very male-dominated career path, right? Um and I I might be completely wrong, but oh no, you're so right. Um so I can't imagine that you have a lot of female officers who would be available to respond to a domestic incident like that, and and and be able to, you know, talk to a victim.

SPEAKER_02 20:10

Yes. Most of those calls come in as a 911 call. So it would be whatever car is the closest, whatever car is covering that area. So if there's a female in the car or not, I know when I first started my career, we had approximately 18, 19 people on my shift, and I was the only female.

SPEAKER_00 20:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:34

Yeah. But I had a I was with a really good team of guys, and I have a soft spot for animals, and we have collisions on highways with deer and moose. And sometimes you have to, you know, unfortunately, take take them out of their misery. And for me to shoot an animal just absolutely breaks my heart. I mean, I don't even eat meat, let alone be able to kill an animal. So we had this understanding on my team that if I got a call that involved an animal, I would do all the paperwork. But one of the boys would show up to take care of the animal for me. And if anybody else got a call where it was a sexual assault, domestic violence, I would help because I would want that. If it was me, I would want a woman to come and talk with me. So that was just an understanding on my team at that time that you got my back, I got yours when it comes to this. And that worked well. But it's not always that way, and people don't have that luxury.

SPEAKER_01 21:34

Right, right. So it's just a it's just an added bonus if you actually have yeah. Speaking of moose, and this story came out of completely nowhere. Several years ago, one time, just on a spur of the moment, I decided I was gonna drive up to Thunder Bay.

SPEAKER_00 21:54

Oh, you see you would see some moose.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

Okay. And I was struck by they you've got signs along the road there that have a picture of a moose and it says night danger. I thought that was the most badass thing I'd ever seen. Night danger.

Future Of Empathetic Leadership

SPEAKER_02 22:14

It's because Are they only dangerous at night? No, they're dangerous all the time. However, the difference is that with deer, raccoons, etc., when your headlights hit their eyes, you see them. With the moose, you don't get that reflection.

SPEAKER_01 22:30

Also hot, high, tall?

SPEAKER_02 22:34

Possibly that, but you don't you don't get the eyes. And if you hit a deer compared to a moose, survivability is higher. Um you know, because the weight and the size and everything else. And during daylight, you can kind of see them. So at night time, visibility is lesser. They're a dark coated animal.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 22:59

Like just they sit high. So you could be looking straight ahead and literally just looking under their legs.

SPEAKER_01 23:06

Exactly. Exactly. Anyway, that nothing to do with compassion. It just reminded me when you said moose, that I had that experience and I thought it was funny.

SPEAKER_02 23:17

So all I know is if you see a moose, aim for the back end of it because no one has ever seen those things back up. Oh deer can go anywhere.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

You know, in northern Minnesota we have moose more than we do down where I live. But so for those of you listening from that part of the country that has frequent moose sightings, good advice.

SPEAKER_02 23:45

But somebody's gonna message you and say, I saw one back up. That girl's wrong.

SPEAKER_01 23:50

There was this loud beeping noise accompanied by yeah, no. Um, oh dear. I had another question here. Oh so it kind of had to do with burnout, which I would imagine happens frequently in the law enforcement field.

SPEAKER_00 24:16

Yes. Um, okay.

SPEAKER_01 24:26

How do you respond to people who believe that compassion makes individuals more vulnerable to burnout or exploitation? That was gonna be my question. Does it I I I don't know that I've ever heard that before.

Legacy, Real Leadership, And Resources

SPEAKER_02 24:44

No, I don't think it would make you more susceptible to burnout. I think that it would be the opposite because when you are more open and you're talking and you're showing compassion, especially compassion to self, not just necessarily to others, then you're not just sucking it all in and staying silent, saying silent. And eventually that capsule is gonna break because you keep holding so much inside. So I think when you have compassion for others as well as yourself and you vocalize it, I think that that can help us definitely from the burnout. And I don't, I mean, there's always people who are gonna manipulate you. Um I had a gentleman once I picked up who was homeless. I was taking him to a shelter, and just kind of I said, Do you want to? I need a coffee. Let's go through the drive-thru. I didn't have to do this, so I go through the drive-thru, I got a coffee, I got him a coffee, and we're driving to the shelter, and from the backseat I hear, gee, thanks for the coffee. It's not like you couldn't afford it to buy me an F and this and that. And I was like, What? Like so sometimes it doesn't matter if you are people still expect more. Um that doesn't mean you have to stop.

SPEAKER_00 26:11

No, it doesn't. Was it a Tim Hortons? It was a surprise.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

Is that like the is that the Canadian version of Starbucks? There's like one on every corner.

SPEAKER_02 26:24

Yes, yes. But we did a large invasion of Starbucks now.

SPEAKER_01 26:29

Oh, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 26:36

Um and I you know so when you look towards the future of of leadership, right? Because what roles do you see empathy playing?

SPEAKER_01 26:57

Do you think more people will come along like your your superior after the shooting who understand the the need for empathy or compassion in the workplace? Or do you think it'll go will continue this downward slide of people thinking it's soft in the future?

SPEAKER_02 27:21

I would hope that it would improve. I know that things have really changed from the beginning of my career to when I left my career. I know that resources are better now than they used to be. They're still not very good, but they are a little better. That there are more people like myself speaking up and speaking out, which I think is huge. Um, because if we don't speak about it, then nobody else feels safe to talk about it. And that was one of the things I've said to people is like, why do you want to talk about this? And my big thing is I want to be the person that I needed when I went through everything and I had nobody. I want to be that person. I want to make it safe. And I I want people to not have that stigma that talking about being hurt or having nightmares makes you weak, makes you all these other things when it's it's human. You'd have to be an absolute psychopath to respond day after day after day to seeing some of the horrific things that we witness without it affecting you. And people, you know, people don't think about. And I was reading different studies, and I know the numbers change depending on what study I've read or the location of the study. But on average, one of the studies that I read said that an average person within their lifespan will have approximately four traumatic incidents in their life, whether it's losing a loved one, divorce, it varies. The average police officer in a 20-year career will bear witness to over 800 traumatic incidents.

SPEAKER_00 29:09

Holy crap.

SPEAKER_02 29:10

So when you think about the weight, yeah, that and then a lot of people, like a l you know, when you're married and you have children and you just responded to a fatality and you saw you know, horrible things, you're not gonna go home and talk about it at the supper table with your wife and children. So you keep it in.

SPEAKER_01 29:32

Yeah, how do you how do you not bring that home? Well you can't.

SPEAKER_02 29:38

Mm-hmm. And that's why parents policing, you know, like I may met people who who have had parents who are police officers who say, I don't know my dad. He'd come home from work and he'd go downstairs and open a beer and watch TV. Or you know, like they just the burden of sharing is so much that they can't, and then they just totally tune out. Like they are a shell of a human that when they're at work, they're high functioning, but as soon as they're not on the job, they can't function.

SPEAKER_00 30:16

Wow. Yikes.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

Um so what legacy we're talking legacy now, so it must be time to wrap up. What legacy do you hope your work leaves in terms of redefining strength through compassion?

Closing And Where To Find Tammy

SPEAKER_02 30:37

Oh one, I hope that my speaking will help reduce the stigma around mental health, which means we all have things that we go through and being able to talk about it can be the difference in survival for some people. It's not only that, it's a difference in divorce rates, in children having connections with parents. So my goal is to go into workplaces and talk about these things regardless of what career you're in, because leadership and communication is top-down and bottom-up. It needs to be at all levels, and we need to know the signs. And I always say, we all know who's been on a bender last night, because you can either smell it or they're wearing yesterday's clothing. We see the people who literally eat their emotions, but we don't notice the people who start to disengage, who don't come to coffee anymore, who don't speak up at meetings anymore. And we need to create a place where it's safe to talk, but also we need to create leaders who actually lead. And in my experience, coming from a career where people have ranks, just because you have rank does not make you a leader. Just because you own a company or you're a manager does not make you a leader. I had people who had less rank than I did at certain points who were definitely leaders in my detachment, in my workplace, because they were people who cared. There were people who listened, there were people who worked hard, and they were respected. I know men that I worked with that I ex I respected their rank, but I had zero respect for them as a human being.

SPEAKER_01 32:26

Right, for sure. Yeah, yeah. It's the person, right? It's not the title or the rank or or anything else.

SPEAKER_02 32:34

No.

SPEAKER_01 32:37

And you are doing such a great job with with your with your speaking engagements. If anybody that's listening to this broadcast, this show, this episode, um needs uh a dynamic, engaging speaker to talk about this kind of stuff. TammyWardspeaks.com, is that right?

SPEAKER_02 33:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 33:05

Is the website. There will be a link to it in the show notes. Tammy, thank you so much for coming on. I really, really appreciate your viewpoint and and your your experience and your ability to share that with us and the world.

SPEAKER_02 33:22

Thank you. This was fun. We could have talked all day.

SPEAKER_01 33:26

We could have.

SPEAKER_02 33:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 33:30

Uh I thank you so much, and uh, I look forward to maybe we could do it again.

SPEAKER_02 33:35

Oh, definitely. Anytime.

SPEAKER_01 33:38

Fantastic. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 33:40

Thanks.

SPEAKER_01 33:50

Thank you so much for joining this episode of the Kindness Matters podcast. And spend part of your day with me and my guest, Emmy Ward.