Leading With Compassion At Work And Home

What if the strongest performance tool you have isn’t a dashboard, but dignity? We sit down with Paul Meunier, executive director of the Youth Intervention Programs Association, and author of the book Relationships Are Everything: What Youth Workers Teach Us About Leadership, to unpack why kindness and empathy are not soft—they’re the hard, practical skills that power trust, retention, and meaningful results. Drawing on decades as a psychotherapist, community leader, and advocate, Paul shares what youth workers already know: relationships are the foundation of growth, whether you’re guiding a teenager through turmoil or leading a cross-functional team through change.

We dig into the real mechanics of human-centered leadership. You’ll hear why transactional management falls flat in a world that needs independent thinkers and collaborators, how Gen Z stays loyal when coached and respected, and the crucial distinction between cognitive empathy (perspective-taking that strengthens outcomes) and affective empathy (absorbing others’ pain that can cause burnout). Paul offers concrete ways to create belonging and recognition so people bring their whole selves to work—and willingly go the extra mile because it matters, not because they’re pressured.

The conversation also steps outside the office into our neighborhoods. Stories of strangers helping each other, even across political lines, remind us that most people are decent and eager to contribute when given the chance. That spirit scales at work through small, sincere actions: ask a real question, listen without fixing, and follow through on support. If you’re ready to replace outdated grind culture with a culture of care, this episode gives you language, frameworks, and examples to start today.

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Chapters

• 0:22 Welcome And Purpose Of The Show
• 1:29 Introducing Paul Munir And YIPPA
• 4:03 What Youth Workers Teach Leaders
• 6:20 From Transactional To Human-Centered Work
• 8:56 Gen Z, Belonging, And Coaching At Work
• 12:28 Soft Skills Are The Hard Skills
• 16:34 Purpose Over Paycheck And Recognition
• 18:58 Turnover, Growth, And Retention In Youth Work
• 21:23 Two Types Of Empathy And Burnout
• 24:31 Boundaries, Trust, And A Lasting Impact Story
• 27:20 Choosing Kindness Over Division
• 31:00 Helping Others As A Path To Joy
• 33:13 One Practical Step To Lead With Empathy

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:22

Welcome to the Kindness Matters podcast. Show that so that's the powerful truth. The kindness can change the world. Every week I aim to china light out. People and organizations making a positive difference to their communities. Proving that actions and the feet and connection to five. This podcast is about 400 stories. It's about 300 acts. Through hotel conversations, inspiring acts.

Introducing Paul Munir And YIPPA

SPEAKER_02 1:27

Hey, hello and welcome everybody. Thank you so, so much for being here, for joining us today on the Kindness Matters podcast. I'm your host, Mike Rathman. Um, and uh that is a very sincere thank you because we all have um so many hours in the day, right? And the fact that you chose to spend 30-ish minutes of your time today listening to this podcast means the world to me. I I appreciate it and I thank you. If you find anything in this particular episode that that uh inspires you or uplifts you, make sure you share it with your family, your friends, your coworkers. Let everybody else know that you found uh a podcast that that makes you feel a little lighter, if that's what we accomplished today. And that is our goal. I've been thinking a lot about there there's been a lot said recently about compassion and empathy and it being weak or less than a desirable um it's a word I'm looking for.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

Attribute for lack of a better word.

What Youth Workers Teach Leaders

SPEAKER_02 2:46

Um but I want to push back on that, and and I've got a whole series of these coming up. This will be the first one, um, and I have a fantastic guest to discuss the importance of compassion and empathy. Uh, today we're joined by someone who has dedicated his life to lifting up young people and the professionals that serve them. Paul Munier is the executive director of the Youth Intervention Programs Association, or Yippa, where he's been building a community that empowers youth-serving organizations across Minnesota and beyond. Paul's journey is inspiring from working directly with young people in therapeutic settings to serving his community as a city council member and mayor to now leading Yippa with a vision rooted in compassion and inclusion. He believes in kindness and empathy aren't just nice ideas, they're powerful tools for real change. Welcome to the show today, Paul. Thanks, Mike. It's great to be here. I'm glad to hear you say that. Paul and I have known each other for a while, everybody. So um what where where do we start with this? Um, I should mention also that you are the author of a book um titled Relationships Are Everything. What Youth Workers Teach Us About Leadership. So talk to me about that, Paul. What have youth workers shown you about the power of compassion uh in leadership?

SPEAKER_03 4:29

Inherent in working with young people, you have to have a sense of empathy and compassion for others. All the research that's coming out now about leadership is clear that you can't just treat people like they're a product or a line on a spreadsheet. They have to be treated with dignity and humanity in order for them to reach their peak potential. So if you're a leader of a business or an organization, what you really want to do is help people be the best person that they can be. And that's what youth workers do. They work with young people who have experienced some hardships in their life. Maybe they've been uh exposed to trauma, or they're living with a parent who's alcoholic, or they're food insecure. And somehow youth workers have to build a meaningful and trustful relationship with that person. And that's pretty much what leaders have to do. They have to get people to convince, they have to convince people that they're worthy of being trusted. And so I think that's what youth workers teach us about leadership.

SPEAKER_02 5:45

Yeah, and I mean, trust is absolutely essential. Um I I don't know. And I think some people forget about that, don't they? They're just like, I'm the boss, do what I say.

From Transactional To Human-Centered Work

SPEAKER_03 5:58

I think so. It's ingrained in our society. Uh, we've treated work in many sort of ways as transactional, meaning that I'll sell myself to you to accomplish some tasks, and in the re return, you'll give me a paycheck. And I think that worked really well when we were in the industrial age, when tasks were pretty automated, pretty uh routine. But in today's world, with all the technology, that you need people to think independently. You need them to be decision makers, you need them to work collaboratively with other people. Therefore, you need them to bring their whole selves to their work. And so, yeah, trust is essential. And I do think we've forgotten about that. And boy, people, if they don't feel a sense of belonging in their workplace, they're not going to perform at their best. So it behooves you as a leader to get your people to be the best that they can be.

SPEAKER_02 6:58

Yeah, for sure. Now you you have spent how how long have you been at Yippa now? Many years, right?

SPEAKER_03 7:05

Well, it's a loaded question. I've been the executive director for about 15 years, but prior to that, when I worked as a psychotherapist, I was on the Yippa board of directors. And I uh served on the board of directors for about 10 years. Voyaging myself a little bit here, Mike, but I've been around Yippa for like 25 years and about 15 years as an employee of Yippa.

SPEAKER_02 7:32

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to make you make yourself feel old or anything.

SPEAKER_03 7:36

No, that's uh 25 years.

SPEAKER_02 7:39

Yeah, I never had that before.

SPEAKER_03 7:41

I had black hair when I was first starting there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:44

We all did. Yeah. Oh my gosh. But uh was there a particular moment during and that makes it sound like it was prior, but or past, past 10th. Is there, was there a particular moment in your career with Yippa when you realized empathy is actually a source of strength and impact?

SPEAKER_03 8:07

Yeah, I think I knew that from before when I was working as a psychotherapist. For 17 years, I worked with young people directly. And it didn't take me long after graduate school to figure out that uh showing a sense of empathy towards young people when you're working with them in a therapeutic setting was essential to getting them to be honest and to be real with you, or in many cases, even say anything to you because they were kind of conditioned to not trust people. So empathy is one great way to build trust.

Gen Z, Belonging, And Coaching At Work

SPEAKER_02 8:46

Now, are all of the the youth from that background where they've they've been through some type of trauma where trust does not come easily, if at all? Yeah. Um, yeah, I can't. That that work is so amazing. And I was talking one time on another show with a gal, and she she basically coaches teams, right? And she was talking about how um workers today you have so many different generations, right? Um and she said workers today um Gen Z has more in common with the silent generation than they do with other generations that are maybe closer to their age. I'm like, the silent generation? My mom was silent generation. She died, you know, ten years ago in her eighties. There are people still working and that were born in the silent and and there were. But the the whole thing was um the silent generation primarily grew up during the depression, right? And so they learned to you didn't just throw something away, you were you fixed it or you repaired it. And she said, and Gen Z is all about the thrifting and going out and finding, you know, retro stuff. And and I when I think about generational um workers, for example, there is so much out there, and I I I often hear people say, well, people just don't want to work anymore. And that's not the case, right? It's that they want they want to be compensated for what they do and the value that they bring. And a good leader knows that.

SPEAKER_03 10:43

I think you're right. And I have a take on the Gen Z that I believe they've got a bad rap, that they're gonna jump around, they're always looking to get uh what they can out of their work and they're kind of selfish. And I I haven't seen that at all. What I've seen is people that know how to take care of themselves and people that are looking to try to get the best out of what they can do with their time here on earth. And they uh have learned to ask for what they want and what they need. And I do believe that we can learn a lot from them. And I also believe that Gen Zs will stay at a job for a long time if they feel like they have a sense of belonging, if they're cared for and they're coached. And they grew up uh with a lot of coaches, a lot of support. And then we, if we expect them to just go into the workplace without uh some support around them, they're gonna struggle. But if you uh treat them with dignity and respect and coach them, they'll stay forever and they'll be as loyal as any other employee and be as content as any other people. We have to learn how to work with different generations, generational people differently. It's too easy to clump people and say there's something wrong with that generation. Uh, there's so much individual differences within generations, and we just need to know how to work with that.

Soft Skills Are The Hard Skills

SPEAKER_02 12:12

Yeah, for sure. And and you're right, we just we see a group of people and they're from three, maybe four different generations, and they go, yep, that's employees. And and it just one size most definitely does not fit all when it comes to leadership style. And so when you're thinking about um about hiring, let's say, and you hear people say that empathy or kindness are soft skills or even weakness, what goes through your mind when you hear that?

SPEAKER_03 12:47

I think it's totally upside down. If you ask me, uh what people refer to as soft skills are human relations skills. And I think those are the hardest skills that there are. Uh the more technical skills, you can learn them. There's a correct answer, there's a right way of doing things, and there's a wrong way of doing things. Human interaction is messy, it's difficult, it's situational, it's really hard. It takes a lifetime to perfect. So I think soft skills are hard and I think it's misnamed. And I think as we grow into a world where technology and artificial intelligence is becoming more and more prevalent, the skills that people are going to need out of youth workers or any kind of industry are people that know how to think on independently, think on their own, and collaborate and coordinate with other people. Those are the soft skills. Those are the skills that are in demand today. Even the large corporations, that's what they're looking for. Mike, we've got Harvard Business School and all these different business schools are teaching people classes on empathy and classes on teaching belonging. These are the skills that youth workers inherently know how to do. And some of these top executives have executive coaches that are teaching them how to have normal relationships with the people that report to them. It's amazing that we've built it backwards uh for today's world.

SPEAKER_02 14:20

Yeah. So I I think definitely the days when when you and I were actively working, I don't know whatever. The the whole notion of, you know, 80 hours a week and get it done, that that's kind of that time has passed, has it not? Much like the dinosaurs.

SPEAKER_03 14:44

I think you're right, especially the Gen Zers aren't going to dedicate their life to uh to something where they've watched their parents and their aunts and uncles get to a point in their life and then they just get stuck. Uh the man sticks it to them, they get laid off because the payroll has gotten too high, their salary has increased over the years, cuts. So they uh we live in a world where people want you to commit to them, but there's not a mutual commitment back like there once was. And I do think that day is gone. But I will tell you, if you get people who have a sense of belonging and they feel like they have a purpose in the organization, they will go to the nth degree. They'll work on evenings and weekends, even if you tell them you don't have to, because they just care about their commitment to their professionalism, their commitment to their teammates, their commitment to their craft in the field. And they will do that extra work, but they're not going to do it blindly just for a paycheck. There has to be a deeper purpose, a deeper sense of reward, a deeper sense of self-fulfillment in order to go that extra mile. And to me, that makes sense. We we are all willing to do the tough thing. We are all willing to do the right thing when nobody is looking. But if we never get recognized for that and nobody's paying attention to that, and it doesn't seem to have any benefit for the people who are uh leading, then I think people are reluctant to do that. As long as they know that they're being recognized and uh aware of their efforts, they'll do incredible things.

Purpose Over Paycheck And Recognition

SPEAKER_02 16:30

Yeah. And okay, so now flip side of that coin is have you seen or or what what's been your experience um with youth workers when their empathy is not valued or supported by supervisors or funders?

SPEAKER_03 16:50

Like so many industries, the turnover rate is really high. And we're asking youth workers to give so much of themselves to build these authentic relationships with young people who have every reason not to trust them. It's an emotionally demanding job. And if they don't get the growth and recognition that they think they need to be successful at that job, they'll leave. Uh, in the field of youth work, about a third of the field turns over every year. And that's not too unusual. There's a lot of industries where the turnover rate is really high. And all the data supports it, all the research, all the science tells us if you give people the training and the growth opportunity, growth opportunities that they are looking for, they will stay and they will work hard. It's just it's really pretty simple. And it's funny that uh people don't do that, even in the field of youth work. A lot of people don't focus as people as their number one objective. They get tied into I've got this process, I've got this, these obligations, I gotta write this grant, and they get mis get off track, they get uh misguided and start thinking the most important thing are tasks. When tasks aren't the most important thing, the relationships with their people are the most important things.

SPEAKER_02 18:21

For sure. Um and you have cautioned um that empathy can lead to burnout if it's not balanced well. Um so how do we distinguish between saying empathy matters and expecting people to endlessly absorb pain without real support?

Turnover, Growth, And Retention In Youth Work

SPEAKER_03 18:46

Great question. I do believe that there's two types of empathy. Uh there's cognitive empathy and there's affective empathy. Cognitive empathy is your ability to consider what it might be like for the other person to put yourself in their shoes. That kind of empathy usually leads to good outcomes. It helps establish relationships, it helps people feel seen, feel heard, those kinds of things. You're pretty much separated from that other person. You're just imagining what it would be like. Affective um empathy is when you feel what somebody else is feeling, when you carry the burden, carry the emotional weight, carry the distress another person has. And if you display that kind of empathy and feel like that's your job, you are gonna burn out because you can can't carry the weight of everybody else's problems and in their lives on your shoulders. So the way you avoid that is you pay close attention to if you are showing color. Cognitive empathy versus affective empathy. There's a tendency to want to go, I feel you, and I want to feel your pain and feel that's a really dangerous proposition. If you're in a field of trying to help people or you're in a leader push leadership position trying to help people grow, um, that's gonna cause you to to to burn out.

SPEAKER_02 20:19

Yeah. For sure. I yeah. So let's talk about I know you probably have a million stories about youth workers that you've that you've got. Can you describe a youth worker um or leader who've you've met who combines decompassion with clear boundaries and high expectations and what others might learn from that example?

Two Types Of Empathy And Burnout

SPEAKER_03 20:50

Yeah, I think in my book, uh Relationships Are Everything, I give a lot of examples of that. And I typically give examples of my own experience because those are most personal to me and the ones that I understand the best. I can uh tell you as a youth worker, there's nothing more important or gratifying that when you work with a young person and then you see them out in the community 15 or 20 years later, and they come up to you and they go, Do you remember me? And at first you're like, No, I'm not sure. And then they then you go, Yes, I do, and they pour their heart out to you because they still have that trust and that belief that you are a safe person to talk to. I can tell you about an example of uh I worked with this young uh lady, she was in middle school, and her parents got divorced, and it was kind of an ugly divorce. And I spent uh a couple of years helping her make sense of that and to help her cope with uh some of the stress that was definitely uh connected with that. And about, I don't know, 15 years later, I was in a store uh looking uh for a particular item, and I was scanning the different brands and all that kind of stuff. And I noticed, I looked out of the side of my eye and I noticed somebody looking at me, a young, like 20, some mid-20s person looking at me, but she was kind of like staring at me. Oh, well, you know, people stare at you. So I just kept focusing, and I actually picked my item and I turned exactly. So I I I uh picked my item, I turned around, and that person was standing right in front of me with a big smile on her face. And she goes, Do you remember me? And I said, I think so. And she's told me her name, and I go, Oh my god, of course. How are you doing? And she went on to tell me about her life, her children, her work. She laid it on me like we were we had just met last week, like it was a continuation of the conversation we had had about 15 years ago. So it takes those skills, that kindness, that ability to just let them be who they need to be in order to bring out that best in that other person. And it feels like we're missing that, right, Mike? In today's world, people want to label somebody, they want to judge people, they want to take one little piece of information they know about somebody and create a whole caricature about that person and believe it to be true. And I think that goes against the emphasis of your podcast about kindness. Kindness is allowing people to be who they want to be and how they want to show up in the world and not be so judgmental of them, but to understand their situation and get to know each other so you can have some sort of mutual understanding of how we make sense of this world.

Boundaries, Trust, And A Lasting Impact Story

SPEAKER_02 23:59

Yeah, yeah. And and that's why that's kind of why I started the podcast, right? Because w we can look for and find very easily division or angst or anger, um because it's it's really it's everywhere, right? But what I wanted to do here was was show the world that there are people out there not behind keyboards that are just being kind. Um and and and that kind of comes to the this other question I have. Have you ever met somebody who claimed that focusing on empathy makes people too sensitive or too political? I'm using air quotes right now, audience, because it's a it's an audio-only podcast. They get it. Um and and if you've met somebody that said that, how do you reframe the conversation back to what actually helps young people thrive?

SPEAKER_03 25:05

Great question. Well, you know, I have met a lot of people like that, Mike. Uh I matter of fact, I think there's a lot of people like that. There's this theory that the individual uh ruggedness, we all have to uh pull ourselves up by our bootstraps. Uh, the world is an ugly place, it's a tough place, deal with it, get used to it. Um I think I've met endless people like that over the years. And I think that I've always just tried to understand my own philosophy and not worry about their philosophy. So I think like my philosophy is like trying to figure out how I see the world so that I can best navigate in it. And I see the world like I think maybe you do, Mike, where more people are really nice and kind than we want to tend to believe because we see it on social media. The media wants to highlight the stories that are negative and confrontational because they get views and uh viewership and ratings and all these kinds of things. But yet you talk to your neighbors, you talk to your coworkers, you talk to your friends, you talk to people out in the community and restaurants, and you find that most people are pretty decent, good people. And I think that we have so much more in common than we want to believe. And I think there's a lot of factors that get us there that we forget about that. Uh, I think there's people who monetize are the divisiveness that we have. And I think that uh we need to be really cognizant of that and not participate in that when we can and focus on the goodness of uh helping people. We see it all the time, right when there's a disaster, if a tornado hit. Mike, if a tornado went down your street and knocked down trees in the road, who would be out there clearing them? Your entire neighborhood. Yeah, you would just be out helping each other. And uh, that's how we are, that's who we are, and uh, we forget that. It's so easy to forget it.

Choosing Kindness Over Division

SPEAKER_02 27:17

Yeah, I as a matter of fact, I just I I found a video the other day. I think my algorithm's set up a little bit differently. I I see more of these this kind of thing. But it's a woman, as she was filming and she was out shoveling her walk, and then she took the camera and she faced it across the street. I don't know if you saw the video.

SPEAKER_00 27:37

I did see it, yes. That was so cool.

SPEAKER_02 27:40

Yeah, because when we're away from the screens and the keyboards and and our phones and what have you, we're just neighbors, right? And maybe you do and maybe you don't know who I voted for. But that's not the point because we're neighbors and neighbors help each other. And that just that video just hit me like right here. Because for those of you who have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about, it was a video of a woman and and she showed the guy across the street snow blowing a driveway, and she said nobody really knew him. Uh he he had just moved into the neighborhood earlier, and um he had he was he was flying I don't remember how she said it, she said he was flying a flag from his house that went in a different direction than she was voting. But the the neighbor across the street, her husband had just gone into um care assisted living. And and so she'd had trouble keeping up the house, and all the neighbors p pitched in. And this particular day, there was a guy who was flying the flag um that went a different direction than she was voting, chipping in and snowblowing the the woman's uh driveway. And honestly, that's what the world I was gonna say should look like, but it it looks like that, right? I mean, if you get stuck in a snowbank and somebody comes along and helps you out, you're not gonna ask what political party they voted for, right? You don't care. You just want help. So I think I just went off on a tangent.

SPEAKER_03 29:32

Well, that's a good tangent to go off of. And I think like when I used to work with young people, I would watch them trying to find happiness in video games and MP3 players and teasing other people, in uh, I don't know, watching, you know, endless TV, whatever it is they did, they tried to find happiness in something. And I would explain to them happiness comes from someone. And what I would suggest they do, if you want to feel good about something, you might listen to a cool song on an MP3 player, and you'll feel that I'm really dating myself because that's when I worked with kids. They would they would play their MP3, the song was great, and that would be done. All of a sudden, the good feeling is gone, the dopamine is no longer in your brain. But if you want to do something that lasts for days, go help a neighbor do something, shovel your neighbor's driveway, mow their lawn, offer to help them paint their fence when they're out painting their fence. Whatever it is you want to do to help somebody, that good feeling will last a long time. There's nothing better to help yourself feel good than to do something nice for somebody else.

Helping Others As A Path To Joy

SPEAKER_02 30:42

Absolutely. That will give you all the dopamine hits. Um, okay, so we're gonna wrap up, but I want to let's wrap it up with this question. Give me or or help me come up with one practical step that a listener can take this week to lead with more empathy, whether it's at home or at work or in their community. I think maybe we just did that, did we not? Kinda. I would I would say if you without feeling like they're giving up their voice or boundaries.

SPEAKER_03 31:18

Yes, if you uh I think my most practical tip is it doesn't have to be something big. You don't have to re-roof somebody's house after a storm. Ask the checkout clerk how their day is going and really mean it. Uh walking by somebody on the street, ask them, how's it going? Are they enjoying the weather? And really mean what you say and understand what they're telling you back. The littlest act of kindness can go a really long way. And we've all had them. We've had that thing where we come home and we tell our significant other or our partner, you wouldn't believe what this person did today. It was the coolest thing. It was the littlest thing, but man, it really turned my day around. And we can do that so easily. It costs us so little, and we gain so much. The return on investment is so huge. It's how we find contentment and a little bit of peace in our work just by being nice to people, saying something nice to them, and really mean it.

SPEAKER_02 32:22

And really mean it, yes, absolutely. Paul Munir, thank you so much for joining me today. Um, I there will be a link to Relationships Are Everything, What Youth Workers Teaches About Leadership, in the show notes. I so appreciate your time today and your wisdom and your advice. And uh and I hope you keep doing great things with Yippa.

SPEAKER_03 32:44

Thanks, Mike. It is a pleasure.

SPEAKER_02 32:46

Take care.

SPEAKER_03 32:48

Bye. Human first.

One Practical Step To Lead With Empathy

SPEAKER_01 32:57

Thank you so much for joining this episode of the Kindness Matters podcast and spending part of your day with us and our guest, Paul Junior from USA. It's truly appreciated, and the hope is that you're taking something positive and encouraging the youth into the rest of the week. If this episode resonated with you, please share with a friend, and consider leaving a review or a comment on the episode. Your feedback helps others find the show and keeps the conversation about kindness going. You're also invited to connect with Twitter, social media, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Friends, and YouTube. With more of those three content and updates are also here. Don't forget to subscribe to the newsworder so you never set an update. Special features or new tweets, and speak to check out the first door.