The Kindness Matters Podcast
So. Much. Division. Let's talk about how to change that. Re-engage as neighbors, friends, co-workers and family. Let's set out to change the world. Strike that. Change A World. One person at a time, make someone's life a little better and then do it again tomorrow and the day after that, through kindness.
Kindness is a Super-Power that each of us has within us. It is so powerful it has the potential to change not only your life but those around you, too. Let's talk about kindness.
The Kindness Matters Podcast
Unbinding Perfection
What if the strongest antidote to perfectionism isn’t tougher goals, but kinder ones? We sit down with life coach and former Dartmouth swim coach Jenn Verser to explore how compassion—especially the kind we offer ourselves—can loosen the grip of people pleasing, fear of failure, and the constant need to outperform. Jen brings candid stories from elite athletics and real-world coaching, showing how high achievers can reframe identity, find alignment, and rebuild confidence without burning out.
We dig into why perfectionism is rising among students and professionals, how cultural pressure moves the finish line, and what happens when your “best” meets a room full of “bests.” Jenn shares practical tools that work: say your inner monologue out loud so you can hear its tone, practice receiving help as a gift rather than a debt, and use conversation—not just policy—to lead with integrity. Her story about keeping a struggling athlete on the team reveals how context, transparency, and accountability can transform outcomes. This is leadership that starts at the human level and scales through trust.
We also talk about life beyond the resume. Jenn explains her shift from corporate to coaching to be present for her child and aging parents, and how anyone can start realignment without quitting their job. Expect concrete takeaways on boundaries, self-trust, emotional recovery, and how to replace “always-on” with honest priorities. If you’ve been measuring your worth by output, this conversation offers a warmer, smarter metric: progress you can feel.
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Hello everyone and welcome to the Kindness Matters Podcast. I'm your host, Mike Raffman. On this podcast, we promote positivity, empathy, and compassion. Because we believe that kindness is alive and well, and there are people and organizations that you may not have heard of in the world, making our communities a better place for everyone. And we want you to hear their stories. On this podcast, we talk about matters of kindness. Because kindness matters. Hey, hello, and welcome to the show, everybody. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. I cannot thank you enough for joining us today. I know a lot of you are loyal listeners and you listen every week, but some of you just made the choice to check out this funky website or podcast about kindness of all things. And I thank you too for choosing kindness, for choosing to spend 30 minutes of your valuable time with me and my guest today. So if there's anything in here you hear that you that you think is important or that is uplifting to you, please feel free to share it with your friends and family. It would mean a lot. Comes out once a month in your inbox. It's totally free and uh has more uplifting content there as well. I have an amazing show for you today with an amazing guest. My guest today is Jen Verser. And you're like, well, who's Jen Verser? Well, let me tell you who Jen Verser is. Jen Verser is a life coach with a background in psychology and education. And this is so cool, a former collegiate swim coach at Dartmouth College. Her coaching career includes serving as a primary coach for ready 31 Dartmouth Records and helping the men's swimming team achieve a number three ranking for the Collegiate Swimming Coaches Association Scholar All-American Team in 2013. But now she runs her own coaching practice, Jen Verser Life Coaching, which focuses on helping people overcome perfectionism and self-doubt to live more aligned lives. Welcome to the show, Jen.
SPEAKER_04:Thank you so much for having me, Mike. What a great reminder of all the stuff I did at Dartmouth. It was such a great fun time. You muted yourself.
SPEAKER_02:That's incredible. There'll be some cutting and slicing there, I'll tell you what. Yeah, I mean, and Dartmouth, we're not talking like some community college here. We're talking Dartmouth.
SPEAKER_04:It was an incredible experience. Um, I never when I swam at Dartmouth, uh, when I swam as a UNH swimmer at Dartmouth College one time, I never would have imagined that I got to spend six years on that campus at that institution. I worked with some incredible human beings, and it was just such an honor for six years to be there.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I I can't what is 31? 31? We rewrote the record boards during my time there for sure.
SPEAKER_02:Are most of those still standing or several of them are still standing.
SPEAKER_04:When I was up there about a year and a half ago, um, they'd they'd rewritten some of them, but a lot of them were still standing. Just an incredible opportunity that we had there and just grew that team tremendously.
SPEAKER_02:Talk about immortalized, right? That's just that's crazy. I I have never been a strong swimmer. So I mean, I remember taking swimming lessons like two or three times as a kid. I can't. I just can't. I inherited my dad's genes of being able to sink in salt water.
SPEAKER_04:My son is like that right now, zero body fat. He struggles to stay afloat.
SPEAKER_02:My gosh. And my dad was in the Navy in World War II. I'm like, how in the world, of all the services you could have gone into, that was the one. And they took you, right? Maybe they didn't they didn't have a swimming test when he uh I'm sure you know it was World War II, so they probably weren't very picky. You can't swim? No problem. Let me find something for you to do. But yeah, so it I I love the focus of your um of your new coaching business, your new coaching. Talk to me about professional or not professionalism. Perfectionism. Is that something? That seems like it would be something that would be fairly prevalent in today's world.
SPEAKER_04:Perfectionism is prevalent and it it is an increasing at a dramatic rate as well. We are seeing young adults coming into college and into their lives, having been told that they were wonderful, that they were excellent, that they were special, and not that they aren't in their own unique ways, but there are things that none of us are perfect at. And we are expected to be able to manage and maintain things in ways that our parents never had to. And I actually spoke with a friend about this recently. She is 22 years old, literally half my age, and learning in a world that is very different than it was 22 years ago. And when these young adults are coming into the world, they are thinking they need to be straight A students and perfect at their jobs and they're attainable at all times to their work and to their businesses. It can be very, very hard. And we're seeing the impact of perfectionism on our professionals as they continue to grow and demand so much of themselves. So it is something that is very near and dear to me. Um, having been a coach at Dartmouth at such a high-ranking institution, I saw perfectionism so regularly with those students, and I see it so often, even still in myself. I have learned a lot of techniques and I've given myself a lot of grace and learned how to forgive myself in things, but it is still a drive to want to be so good and sometimes so perfect. And it is so hard. And so it is something that is just very important to me that we learn how to deal with.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I, you know, and I see it. I am so far away from college age at this point. I mean, in high school, I took the ASVABS, which is the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery. I believe that's what it stands for. I did not bother with the, you know, the SATs or anything like that. I was a poor student. I knew I was a poor student. I had no illusions that I would be getting into college. But today, I mean, you have to check. We tell ourselves, we tell our kids that you have to check so many boxes just to be able to get into a good school. And it's not enough to have excellent grades, right? You have to do community service and volunteer work and this and that and the other thing. Are we to blame as parents? Or is society itself saying you have to be all of this in order to get into a good school?
SPEAKER_04:That's a great question. It's a com I think it's a combination of things. As parents, I believe that all parents give their kids the best that they can. No matter how good or bad that might be, I truly believe that parents do the best that they can for their children with what they have.
SPEAKER_00:I agree.
SPEAKER_04:And we have, as parents, we we want the best for our kids. And we are in a culture where the best for our kids is continuing to be harder and harder to achieve. Um and there's more and more competition for so many things. It seems to me that a college degree, my parents said to me when I was graduating from high school, a college degree is what a high school degree used to be. And then a master's degree is what a college degree used to be. And how far do we go with that? Right. Um, and so when we look at the 1950s, 60s as the times when people really started attending college as that next step. And then, well, I want my kids to have better than what I had, better than what I had, better than what I had. We're seeing that our kids are striving so hard to make that mark. And it's so hard to keep getting higher and higher and higher and achieve more and more. The students at Dartmouth were coming in. So many of them were valedictorians with perfect grade point averages. They were the best in their school, the best in their town, the best of what they knew. Even if they were coming from a private institution, they were the best of that best. And they come in where all of these kids were the best of the best. So, how do you set yourself apart in that? Yeah. It can be really hard.
SPEAKER_02:You are you call are you is this your title, Unbound Coach?
SPEAKER_04:Mm-hmm. I named myself that. I want to learn. Yeah. I want us to learn how to not be so tied to these identities.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yeah. And we set those up ourselves, though, right? We decide, you know, we we think I am. So how with that title in hand, how do you see kindness playing a role in helping clients break free from that? The stress, the burnout, and the people pleasing, especially. We all are guilty of that, right? To some degree or another.
SPEAKER_04:Yes, absolutely. It starts with trust in ourselves, to trust ourselves, to tell ourselves the truth and to be kind to ourselves. As a perfectionist, we often find ourselves judging others. And something that I have learned is when I sense myself giving that judgment to someone else, to take a look back at myself and say, what am I, what am I seeing within myself? Why am I having this judgment for someone else? What does it say about me? And then being kind with myself about that. We are the I am the only person that I'm going to have for my entire life. I should treat myself as my best friend because I'm what I've got.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And to speak to myself kindly. What better thing can I do?
SPEAKER_01:And I I do that a lot of times. I think it comes off as self-effacing. You know, you're like I'm a dummy. But you know, when you hear that I think there's a I don't know.
SPEAKER_02:I I'm guilty of it, the negative talk, the self- the what do you call it? We call it the negative self-talk.
SPEAKER_04:Negative self-talk.
SPEAKER_01:But that's what I was thinking.
SPEAKER_04:Absolutely. We're all guilty of it. We all do it. We just try to learn new habits to teach ourselves to do it less.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So so how do you guide clients to recognize I don't want to no, I don't want to ask that. That's not the right question. I had all my questions, they're all lined up, they're not in order. Okay. What inspired you to pursue life coaching after a background in psychology and education?
SPEAKER_04:My time as a swimming coach solidified for me the love that I have for working with the human and the human spirit. I was coaching at Dartmouth, and I found that the interactions that were the most meaningful were not the ones that happened on the pool deck, but the ones that happened on the bus or in my office or uh at a meal with my athletes. And I had an athlete who, after I left coaching, he and I actually got breakfast together one morning. And he said to me, Jen, what are you doing? What are you gonna do next? What's your next step? And I said, Well, Tate, I'm really looking into becoming a life coach. I'm really looking into just helping people in their lives. And he looked at me and he kind of laughed. And he said, Jen, of course that's what you're gonna do. That's what you've always been for us.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, you know what? And that brings up another good question. Is it so much from being an athletic coach to being a life coach? Is that such a leap, really?
SPEAKER_04:No. I really think that the only thing that is different is that I don't step onto a pool deck with them or get on a bus with them and travel with them. But I spent so much time getting to know them as human beings. And I think that was part of what set my team apart was that we were so connected as humans that I recruited people that I wanted to work with, not just fast swimmers that I wanted to coach.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And so that is part, I think a huge part of why this felt like such a natural shift.
SPEAKER_02:I heard a noise. I'm sorry. That was me, probably. Yeah, no, I I totally get that. It's almost like a natural progression, isn't it?
SPEAKER_04:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:Yes. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02:So, in your practice, as you're you're helping these people, has there been anything that surprised you most about the way people respond to kindness during difficult times?
SPEAKER_04:I have found so often that when people are going through something hard and we try to offer them something, they push it away. The immediate response is, oh, I don't need that. You give too much. I oh, you couldn't, I couldn't accept that.
SPEAKER_02:I don't deserve that.
SPEAKER_04:Some of that too. Why would you do that for me?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Why would you offer that? My mom was really sick last fall and I I took some time away from my corporate job. Thanks to the Family Medical Leave Act. I was able to take two weeks off and care for her. And she kept apologizing to me. I'm so sorry that I've taken you from work. I'm so sorry that you've had to do all of this. I'm so sorry that you've gone through all of this with me. And I said I finally said to her, Mom, I need you to stop. It's a gift. I'm so honored to give this to you. Please receive it as a gift. Somewhere along the way we've been learned that we shouldn't receive, whether we're not worthy of it or that we feel that it's too much to ask for someone else. But receiving is actually accepting a gift.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And that's kindness in and of itself, right?
SPEAKER_04:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02:Receiving that gift and and you know, taking what somebody is giving you is as much kindness as giving the gift in the first place. I think that's just my personal opinion. Yeah, it it's do you do you find telling people No, wait, let me rephrase that. Do you do you ever give advice to people who struggle to treat themselves with and if so, what is that advice? With the same compassion that they show others. Because I know there's a lot and this is is this this is about people pleasing, right?
SPEAKER_04:In a way, yes, it can be. Depending on what what that inner talk is, it can be about the expectations of other people. And I think it often is about the expectations of other people. And rather than giving people advice on how to say something differently, I really encourage them to say out loud what they say to themselves.
SPEAKER_02:Right. I mean, outside of their own head.
SPEAKER_04:Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I I say, please tell me what you say to yourself. I want to hear it. And so often when they say it out loud, they're so shocked that they even could say that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Because that's not the way that they would talk to me. That's not the way that they would talk to their friends or their kids or their husband or their partner or whoever. But they're willing to speak to themselves that way. And when they start realizing that, that's when things can start to change for them. That's when they're able to internalize, oh, that voice, that that was hurtful.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Actually saying those words out loud or even looking in the mirror, but I really think and saying those things, but I really feel that the saying it out loud to someone else, what you say to yourself. Yeah.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Don't say it as if you're talking to them. Because then there will be hurt feelings. And that can be hard to come back from. Have you ever experienced a pivotal moment when kindness transformed a path you were on?
SPEAKER_04:I wouldn't so much necessarily say a path, but a way that I looked at the path.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_04:So I was uh when I lived down in Florida, I was working for a I was a manager at a fall small prepared foods company. And I managed one of their stores in St. Petersburg, Florida. And we had an older woman who would come in. She was single, never married, no children. She lived in an apartment by herself. And she was always so nice. And she would come in and she'd spend 10 or 15 minutes once or twice a week with myself and my staff. And we'd help her get her meals ready for the week. And we'd just change, exchange niceties about the books that we'd been reading, those kinds of things. Yeah. And um, shortly after I got uh engaged, we I was helping her and I handed her a bag and she grabbed my hand and she said, What is that on your finger? You didn't say you got engaged. And we just started chatting, and I was walking her to her car and she said, I'm just so happy for you. She said, Jen, I want to tell you something. If you have something kind to say to someone, you need to say it because you could change someone's day, you could change someone's life. Don't hold it inside.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And I I honestly I feel so terrible. I don't remember this woman's name, but she changed the way that I look at speaking to strangers to just reaching out and saying, Oh, I love that shirt, or oh, I'll say to a little kid, I love your flashing shoes, you know, anything like that. And it it elicits a smile.
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_04:And it you never know how that will change someone's day or more. If you can just go in with a smile and offer something uh uh just a tidbit.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yeah, because I think each of us, if we had a nickel for every time we've looked at somebody and said, Oh, I really like whatever it is about that person, you know, but didn't say anything, such a missed opportunity for for just joy on both of your uh sides. I mean, right?
SPEAKER_04:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02:Because when you when you do that, when you say those things out loud to somebody, they feel good. And assuming, I mean, you know, maybe maybe they don't. I read a a story in Reddit one time. And it was I don't remember what which subreddit it was, I can't tell you. Um, but this guy was talking about how he had been having a really rough couple of months, and and he was just really down. And he was walking back to his truck, he was at work, and somebody on the street just hollered out to him, hey man, really love what you're doing with that beard, right? And he's like Of course he's like, you know, he's looking around, he's like, Me? And he said he said it had been so long, he'd been down for so long, he hadn't really even taken care of himself, much less his, you know, his grooming. And but he said he got into his truck and he just sat there and cried, happy tears, because somebody had thought enough to holler out to him and mention that, and he said it just turned his whole world around that particular day because one person hollered out on the street and mentioned you know, they liked something about him.
SPEAKER_04:Kindness costs us nothing.
SPEAKER_01:Zero.
SPEAKER_02:It's too bad this is an audio-only podcast, isn't it?
SPEAKER_03:Indeed. But it just it costs nothing to give some light.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean you can make it cost something if you want. There's the whole buying coffee or whatever.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Genuine kindness really doesn't cost a thing.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yeah. Um so I really love this. I could almost feel like I could talk for like an hour or so just about saying something to somebody, yeah, changing their world. Um, but talk about okay, I'm gonna have one more question for you, and then I want to talk about your business. How do you envision kindness changing the broader landscape of leadership, work, and everyday life? That's a really broad question. I apologize.
SPEAKER_04:Not at all. Um having as a as a life coach, I do feel like I'm a leader. I support people and their mental health. Having come from a retail background and an education background and an athletic coaching background, I always felt that what set me apart from my peers was my kindness. The way that I have always led from my heart, the way that I have looked at situations and said, just because this is the rule, maybe it doesn't apply to this situation. How I was willing to shift my viewpoint based on the individual. And I think too often we look at a broad sense. In the states right now, we can look at Republican, Democrat, and make assumptions about people. And you know what they say about making assumptions?
SPEAKER_01:When you assume exactly, we certainly do.
SPEAKER_04:Yes. And it can be so hurtful to assume things about someone. I had a student athlete when I after I left Dartmouth, I moved to Florida and I was coaching a high school team. And my third year with the team, I had a young man show up to uh a Saturday morning swim meet under the influence of a Friday night funness.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And yes, exactly. And I had multiple other student athletes come to me concerned. And I approached this student athlete with his parent after the meet was over, and we had a conversation. And I didn't know what would happen, but what I found out later was that his mother took him to get drug tested, and it came back that he had indeed been in bibing in something the night before. And the policy of the team was if you showed up to an event like that, you were no longer a member of the team.
SPEAKER_02:And I not just not meet, the whole team. You were off. You were done.
SPEAKER_04:You were off. You signed the handbook, you knew that was the rule. That's that. And I had had this student athlete, this was his third season with me. I really loved him. He was a great kid, just struggling, you know, just wanted to go out and have fun with the boys on Friday night at the football game. And I spoke with his parents, I spoke with the athletic director, I spoke with the dean of students, and we all agreed that if we cut this kid from the team, this might be the last straw that was holding him together. And he might just not make it.
SPEAKER_02:Push him right over the edge. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And I spoke with the team and I said, we are a family. Team is another word for family. And sometimes in families we make mistakes and we have to make exceptions to rules. And we talked about what happened and why this young man was still going to be allowed on the team. And the team was very understanding about it. And it was because I took the time to explain it. And I think sometimes we miss that opportunity to say, okay, we're doing this because.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, absolutely. We say this is the way it's gonna be. I've made a decision, blah, blah, blah. And and yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, and I think the conversation can change everything.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So so he stayed on the team.
SPEAKER_04:He did. He did. And he wound up um going off to community college and doing really, really well. And, you know, is a productive adult member of society now. And it's I'm so grateful that I knew that I got to be a part of that and that my team learned how to make an exception. 25 young men and women.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. It was all these these boys and girls got to learn that there can be exceptions to the rules under certain circumstances.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, for sure. Wow. It's so great. That what a great story. I never heard I haven't heard that one yet. Full of surprise. Let's talk about genverser.com.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02:If there's anybody listening to this episode and you're feeling like because of perfectionism or burnout or stress that you need a little extra help, how can some do you work you work with clients all over the United States, right?
SPEAKER_04:I work with clients all over the world. Yeah. I work with people all over the world because if I limited myself to the States, man, I'd I'd lose out on a lot of amazing people.
SPEAKER_01:Well, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Absolutely. So I definitely work with people all over the world. I got into life coaching because I want to help people experience their lives. I left the corporate world for that exact reason. Because I was going through the motions every single day. I was tired. I was missing my son's childhood. I was my marriage was falling apart. My parents are getting older, and I was not able to support them the way that I wanted to. And so now I get to help other people learn how to do the same thing. And I'm not saying you have to leave your job.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_04:But you can find joy in your life by the way that you speak to yourself, the way that you trust yourself, the way that you release the judgments on yourself and of others, the way you speak your truth to yourself, to the people that matter. That's the work that I do with people. So if you feel moved to work with me, reach out to me on social media. You can schedule a call with me on my website, on my scheduling page.
SPEAKER_02:But yeah, we'll have links to the website in the show notes.
SPEAKER_03:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02:And by the way, your Instagram, how do the kids say it today? Is fire.
SPEAKER_03:Thanks. All right. Thank you.
SPEAKER_02:Love your IG.
SPEAKER_04:Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_02:That's what they say, right? IG?
SPEAKER_04:I think so. I don't know. I'm not a kid anymore. So I don't know what the kids are saying.
SPEAKER_02:You're on you're on Facebook, Instagram.
SPEAKER_04:Yep.
SPEAKER_02:Any other things?
SPEAKER_04:On TikTok a little bit, but LinkedIn, I'm on LinkedIn as well.
unknown:Oh. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:LinkedIn, of course. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yes. Yep.
SPEAKER_02:TikTok, really.
SPEAKER_04:A little bit. I'm not I haven't gotten into the the TikTok yet. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Oh my God.
SPEAKER_04:That's so, it's so kitschy. It's so bright and it's overwhelming a little bit.
SPEAKER_02:Funny story about TikTok. I knew of it, I was aware of it. And then during the pandemic, I think I told you my wife and I had a cleaning business, have a cleaning business. And one of our clients, we were at her house and we were just talking about, you know, how things were and crap and, you know, just put you in a horrible mood and blah, blah, blah. And she goes, Do you know about TikTok? And I'm like, Well, I'm old, but I'm not that old. And like, yeah, I'm aware of TikTok. And she, I said, I could never, I could never go on there though. That's that's for younger people, right? And um, and she said, Well, I don't post anything on it. I just go on it and watch like the dog videos or the this videos, and she goes, and I laugh and it keeps me happy for a while.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah. I'm like, Yeah, hmm, I'm gonna have to try that out.
SPEAKER_02:So I did. I start going on it. And all of a sudden I'm like, I could use this to promote my podcast.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yep.
SPEAKER_02:Now I'm on it like way more than I should be.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, well, it it's the dopamine hit. It's part of the way I don't get on it very much, is because I I feel like I'm on social media already so much and it's just gonna add to my level. You're working. Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_02:It's not like you're messing around, you're working.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02:Jen Verser, thank you so much. You have been an absolute delight. I love what you're doing for people.
SPEAKER_04:Thank you, Mike. Thank you so much for having me on today.
SPEAKER_02:I appreciate your time, and we're gonna chat again soon.
SPEAKER_04:Sounds great anytime.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Kindness Matters podcast with my guest, Jen Verser. If you're feeling stuck, if you feel like you need some help, uh check out her website in the show notes. There's a link there. And uh yeah, such a fun, fun, fun guest to have on. Um, I hope this episode left you feeling a little easier, a little more hopeful about the state of the world we all share. And if you enjoyed any of this episode, please feel free to tell your friends, family, and co-workers about us. Also, don't forget to subscribe to our newsletter for more uplifting content. It's brand new and it's free, and there's a link to sign up in the show notes. Also, you know, check out our social media pages: uh Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, uh, LinkedIn, YouTube, you name it, we're there. Check us out, subscribe, follow, do all of those things. You have been listening to the Kindness Matters podcast. We will be back again next week with a brand new episode, and we would be honored if you would join us again. Until then, remember, kindness matters, and so do you.
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