The Kindness Matters Podcast

Hot Mess, Big Heart

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What if a mop and a kind word could change the way someone sees herself? We sat down with Brittinie Tran, founder of Hot Mess Express, to explore how a single Facebook plea turned into a national, women-led nonprofit that cleans homes, organizes chaos, and restores confidence—without judgment. From the first eight volunteers with dollar-store supplies to 150+ affiliates across all 50 states, this is a story about practical help meeting profound human need.

We walk through what a “mission” really looks like: music on, sleeves up, and an atmosphere where conversation matters as much as the scrubbing. Brittinie explains why self-nomination is central to their model, how training teaches volunteers to embody nonjudgment (not just say it), and the surprising ways nominees often return as volunteers and even leaders. Along the way, we dig into the mental health impact of a refreshed space, the hidden epidemic of loneliness, and the power of multi-generational wisdom to turn quick fixes into lasting change.

Behind the scenes, Brittinie shares the unglamorous side of scaling a nonprofit—insurance, state-by-state fundraising rules, and the systems that protect both people and purpose. We compare lightweight affiliates with growth-oriented chapters, talk through sustainable volunteer onboarding, and unpack why clarity and community are the real growth engines. Most of all, we reflect on the deeper shift Hot Mess Express sparks: letting go of shame, naming limits, and learning that asking for help is a strength, not a failure.

If you’re hungry for hope you can touch—stories of neighbors showing up, rooms transformed, and posture-lightening relief—you’ll feel at home here. Listen, share with someone who needs a village, and leave a review to help more people find the show. And if this conversation moved you, check the show notes to volunteer, nominate, or start an affiliate in your community.

 

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SPEAKER_01:

Hello everyone and welcome to the Kindness Matters Podcast. I'm your host, Mike Raffman. On this podcast, we promote positivity, empathy, and compassion. Because we believe that kindness is alive and well, and there are people and organizations that you may not have heard of in the world, making our communities a better place for everyone. And we want you to hear their stories. On this podcast, we talk about matters of kindness. Because kindness matters. Hey, hello, and welcome everybody. Thank you so much for being here. You are listening, by choice, I assume, to the Kindness Matters podcast. I am your host, Mike Rathbun. I I really appreciate the fact that you took the time, 30 minutes or so, to listen to this podcast. I hope you find it uplifting or inspiring or motivating. Any of those things. If you do find it to be any of those things, please, please, please reach out and tell your friends and your family and your coworkers and whoever else will listen that you found a great podcast that makes you feel good and I would appreciate it so much. And don't forget to sign up for our newsletter. You can find that. There'll be a link at the bottom of the show notes for that. You get an uplifting message every month. And let's get into the show because I have an awesome one for you today. I absolutely love this. My guest today is Brittany Tran. And Brittany is a mother of three kids with that she raises with her husband. And she's also the founder of a nonprofit. It's called the Hot Mess Express. Not the. There's no the in there, right? No the. Okay. It's just Hot Mass Express. Um, and Hot Mess Express is a women-led nonprofit serving women through cleaning, organizing, and offering a fresh start. Welcome to the show, Brittany. Thank you so much for being here.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, it you know what? And I'm not even quite sure. Did you reach out to me on one of my podcast guest requests?

SPEAKER_00:

I think it was um I had posted about uh looking for a co-host for my podcast. And I think you had I had kind of talked about you know hot mess and things like that, and I think that's how we connected.

SPEAKER_01:

I absolutely okay, so let's let's give your podcast a shout out. What is it?

SPEAKER_00:

Uh it's called Girl Same. Girlsame. Girls. It's it's a relatable podcast for for women who just kind of want to be validated in all the things.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, you know what? We'll throw in a link to that. I'm guessing Spotify, Apple Yeah, all the things, yep. All the things. RSS. We'll throw a link in there for that too. Maybe one for Spotify and one for Apple. We'll hit them both. But now the thing that drew me, first of all, was the name. I mean, because that's such a great name. Hot Mess Express. Where did you come up with that? Why did you come up with that? And how did this all start?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I mean, the, you know, the name is such a funny thing for us because when we were planning all this out, we never in a million years expected it to be a national organization, you know. So we kind of look back at things like that and we're like, you know, it all works out. So we're glad it did. But like, man, I probably should put more time into thinking that through if we had known where it was gonna go. Um, but yeah, so the name was something we had we had picked just a few, I think like three, and we kind of just threw it out to the women who were involved and and did a quick vote. And uh that's the one it landed on. And and now I can't imagine it being anything else because it is it is just so fitting for anyone involved. We're just all hot messes.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, yeah, it is kind of very descriptive when you realize what you all do, right?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, we always kind of talk about that you really can't be involved unless you are yourself a little bit of a hot mess. You probably wouldn't fit in well.

SPEAKER_01:

File that undertakes one to know one.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_01:

That's so funny. So talk to me about Hot Mass Express. What is it that you guys do?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so we help the women in our community with cleaning and organizing, and we just try and give them a fresh start to get back on their feet. It all started with a post we had found on Facebook of a mom who she had just had her second baby and her husband was gone all the time. And that she was like, she kind of shared all this and was like, I need help. We do not have the means, but like if you can share an affordable somebody to help clean, um, just to get me back on my feet, you know. Um, and so a lot of people were really great and they shared all of these really great examples and, you know, shared contact information and stuff. Um, but you know, there was a bigger need there. She wasn't really looking for a cleaning service so much as she was just looking for support from other women. And so that's what we ended up doing. We got about eight of us together and we all just kind of brought some cleaning supplies from home. We made a stop at like the Dollar Tree and picked up a few items, and then we just showed up and we were all kind of like, you know, nervous. We're like, I don't know how this is gonna play out.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, because you guys had you'd never met her beforehand, right? It could have been a serial killer.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, any of us could have been, honestly, you know.

SPEAKER_01:

Fair enough. Fair enough. Yeah, and and you just went over there and now is there as much talking as cleaning going on in one of these?

SPEAKER_00:

For sure, for sure. It's so much like you know, the cleaning and organizing for us is such a small piece to it. There is so much more about just like being a community. You know, there's a lot of talk of you know, wanting a village and wanting that support and stuff, and this is like such a great way to get that because when we do these missions that we call them, it's like hearing from all these different generations, younger than you, older than you, sharing their tips, sharing their advice. That's something that we just don't have naturally as often anymore. So, yes, we talk, we listen to music, um, you know, we just have a good time. It's not just, you know, scrubbing floors and stuff. It's it's an enjoyable time for everybody for sure.

SPEAKER_01:

And I you had mentioned that none of nobody, none of you could be involved in this if you weren't there wasn't some aspect of a hot mess involved. How does your personal journey or background shape the organization's mission?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I I think that most people on the team would agree that I am uh president of Hot Mess in in more than one way. So, you know, I like to lead by example. But uh I, you know, I grew up with that um kind of um having seeing my mom have friends and we had friends who we called aunts and and uncles that weren't really those, you know, tip t or weren't actually family members and stuff. So like we grew up with that, and I was with, you know, my aunt a lot when I was younger and things. But then when I grew up, uh my husband and I, we moved out of state right after we got married. And so we moved away from all support. Um, I didn't have any of my girlfriends, I didn't have any family, and it was just really isolating. And then you kind of add that other layer of being kids in, and it's like, wow, now I'm like even more isolated and not having that support or just women to say that, like, yep, this is hard. Yeah, your house is gonna look like that, yep, you're gonna struggle, you know, just to validate you and and to confirm that you're not crazy, you're not the worst mom, you're not the worst person, all these things. So I didn't have any of that, you know? And so that's what I want to bring with Hot Mess for women because I know I'm not alone in that.

SPEAKER_01:

There's a lot of empathy there and compassion coming from you. And so you saw this ad, and it wasn't even an ad, it was a post, right? The one, the, the original, and do you call them clients or um, we call them nominees. Okay. All right. So the original nominee, that's a great question. How do you get your nominees? How do you decide who's gonna get the service next?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so we have a form on our website that you can submit. So it's really important to us that we encourage women to nominate themselves. A lot of what we're trying to do is to move this idea of women asking for help. It's okay to ask for help. We all need help. You don't need to feel shame behind it. It's just something we all need. And a lot of us are just not comfortable asking. So we really try and encourage them to submit the form themselves, and then they can do that and they can select which uh affiliate is closest to them. And then the affiliates try and, you know, they try and kind of go through as they get them, but obviously certain situations might, you know, need more immediate assistance and stuff like that. But it's definitely hard because they're I mean, every single one that comes in is is definitely worthy of our help and and we want to, you know, be able to do that for them.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and I don't know, you may have mentioned it, I don't think I did, that this is not this is not just limited to your area, right? You're in you're in the Brawley, North Durham, Winston, Salem research triangle area of Newton, North Carolina. This is a this is a national nonprofit, is it not?

SPEAKER_00:

It is. So it got started here in the Triad, North Carolina. Um, and now we are across the country. We've got about 150 affiliates um around the country, and uh, we've actually done missions in every state, including Alaska and Hawaii. So that is just really, really cool.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, side question. Do you get to go to Alaska and Hawaii and help set up the chapters or pushing it?

SPEAKER_00:

You know, that's that's what I'm saying. I feel like they might just need a little extra assistance just getting set up, you know, and I want to be that person for them.

SPEAKER_01:

Just saying the founder needs to go and make make themselves seen. That's that's what I'm saying. That was my pen. So, what kind of challenges have you faced when you were trying to build this out nationwide? I mean, it couldn't have been easy, and especially because you're in every state, right?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Um, I mean, there's definitely a lot of like the logistics and stuff that has been complicated. You know, we want to make sure that like our affiliates are covered by insurance and we want to make sure that they can bring in funds for their affiliates so they can buy cleaning supplies and things like that. So there's definitely been a lot of hurdles with all of that. But I think in general, the biggest thing has been that going into this, I didn't have any nonprofit experience. So, you know, from my naive low mind, I was like, oh, well, it's a nonprofit. Like you're gonna, they're gonna want to help you, they're gonna support you, that the government's gonna make this easy so that you can do the good thing. Uh, and then I was I was quickly shown that that's not the case. They actually will make it as difficult as possible. There's a lot of hoops to jump through. There's a lot of paperwork and just all of that. And it's hard to, or it's easy to find yourself getting too lost in all of that and forgetting, you know, why you're what you're really trying to accomplish and what your where your heart is. So, like finding that balance and making sure you're, you know, legit and doing the things you need to do, but like staying to the heart of the matter has definitely been one of my biggest struggles.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, for sure. And you started this how long ago?

SPEAKER_00:

Four years ago. So we just celebrated four years. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Congratulations, by the way.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01:

So during that time, I mean, kindness has always probably played, well, certainly it plays a part in who you are and what you do. Can you talk about some unexpected ways, maybe that kindness has shown up, either from volunteers or um nominees, or the wider community in general, for sure, as a result of your efforts?

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. I I think that one of the coolest things is watching the way that the women connect with each other. So, like obviously, the volunteers are kind and supportive to the women that we're helping, but like it just goes so beyond that. You know, the women that we help, they come back and volunteer. That's so cool. That's such a such an awesome example of community, of a village, you know. So that's something that's really special. We have the second woman that we ever helped now serves on our board. So she goes to missions all the time. So that's also something that we've seen. But even by like beyond that, seeing the affiliates and the leaders of those affiliates, the way that they support one another, the way they just kind of swoop in and build each other up and they offer guidance and offer to be a mentor, the like the more you know long-standing affiliates, things like that. And the way that they're so kind to our national team. You know, we're a small team of volunteers and we are just figuring it out day by day, learning as we go, all of the things, and their ability to give us grace and be patient and stuff, you know, shines through. So like it's really cool to see how everybody just treats each other so respectfully, whether it be like on a mission or behind the scenes.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. Now, when you're talking, because you were talking a second ago about volunteers and how do you find these volunteers? And then once you find them, somebody comes to you and says, I want to, I really want to be a part of this. How do you support them and and ensure that they're empowered and compassionate and able to serve without judgment? Because that's a big part of what you do, right? There's no judgment.

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. And, you know, I always tell, because we we do have an onboarding training class that they take. And we do offer a lot of that kind of stuff and and we meet with them ahead of time just to kind of walk it through. And one of the things I always touch on with that is that, like, you know, non-judgment is it goes beyond the words you say. Um, because you can say up and down, I'm not judging, I'm not judging, you know, but the women you're helping, you know, when they open that closet and everything falls out, they're gonna look at your face, they're gonna look at your body language. As much as you might sit there and be like, I'm not judging, just here to help. You know, if you're looking at them with kind of like this look of like, oh, you know, like that's something I don't see everything. That kind of yeah, you know, that show that shows through. So like we talk a lot about that and the importance of like genuinely meaning and what that means to come without judgment, um, and the ways to offer support outside of just the cleaning and organizing, but just as you know, woman-to-woman, community member to community member, you know, offering resources, talking. Um, some of the a lot of women form friendships with the women that they help or other volunteers. So it's like an ongoing kind of thing, which is just ideal, you know. That's so great.

SPEAKER_01:

That is so great because yeah, because that's one of the things that we have to watch out for these days is loneliness, right? Absolutely. I'm thinking that that's that's probably gotta play a pretty good chunk of why somebody gets nominated to you, is because they are. They're they're feeling like you did when you moved out of town and they're feeling isolated or lonely or not supported or or whatever it is, right?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I mean, we've had many affiliates who have they've come to us and they've said, you know, well, we had these requests for missions, but when we're looking around, there's not there's not really much to do, you know. So like I'm not sure if, you know, maybe they didn't understand or something. And I feel like in those cases, it's because, you know, maybe they there's one or two things you can help out with, but maybe the bigger need you can fill is just being that group of women that surrounds her um and builds her up. And maybe that's what she's she's looking for and needing. And I mean, to me, that's such a huge component to what we do, just as important as like the physical acts of cleaning and things like that.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and speaking of that, so when we're talking about something as practical as cleaning and organizing, how do you see that being transformative in somebody's life? And it you just explained that that's not necessarily all there is to it, but does that really transform somebody?

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. I mean, you know, how it's so crazy to me is we walk into these missions and the women that we are helping, you can see physically how tense and stressed they are. You know, from their perspective, this is shameful, this is worst case scenario. And then they're letting all of these strangers, these women, come into their house. And, you know, we get into stuff. We're in drawers, we're in cabinets, so it's not just surface clean, you know. So they feel that like tense and stress, usually, you know, not a lot of eye can't contact, shoulders down, that kind of thing. Um, and then by the end of it, you can physically see they are lighter, their shoulders are back, they, you know, because not only is their space refreshed, but they've had, you know, four hours of just women validating them and up empowering them and uplifting them. Um, and that can do such wonders for your mental state, but also the clean house, you know, like a lot of people talk about it's a reflection of your mental health, and it really is because it becomes secondary in moments of crisis or when other things are happening in your life, and it can get to a point where it's like, I don't even know where to start. And every time you walk past it, you're like, Oh, I need to do that, I should have done that. I need, you know, and that gets to you for sure.

SPEAKER_01:

For sure. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, even I've been there, so I know what you I know exactly what you're talking about. Because yeah, when life takes over, things that you may have been able to do on the regular are not getting done on the regular. And it really takes no time at all for that to go from oops, I forgot that, to my God, it's out of control.

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. I always refer to it as like living paycheck to paycheck. It's the same idea, you know. If you miss a day of cleaning, especially if you have a larger family, you it is so hard to get caught back up because now you are always a day behind or you need to find a day to do double the work. Um, and so it's just so easy to fall behind. It's such a slippery slope. And if you, you know, don't have anybody around to just, you know, help out with a load of laundry or grab your kids for an hour so you can get stuff done. It really is very difficult.

SPEAKER_01:

It absolutely is. And and and it oftentimes it'll get to a point where you just don't feel like you can ever climb out of it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So uh I mean, kudos to you guys. And I I just absolutely love that you guys are are there for the nominees. And I mean, this community of supported women, that's so huge, especially these days.

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. I think like, you know, like I said, it's it's so more and more often that your family moves out of state or your friends move out of state or you move for a job or whatever it might be. And you know, like we've helped women who are moving to college and they got their first apartment and they don't have any, they don't have mom or aunts or anybody in the area to like help and figure out the basics. And so we had uh a mission uh that went and helped her, and then we had a mission that we helped an elderly woman whose kids had moved out of the house, and she just had you know arthritis and things like that, so she couldn't get those deep clean spots, and that's how we helped her. So like it really is kind of across the board from from the start to the end, is like you need the women in your life, you need friendships in your life, um, and you just need people you can count on and lean on when you you know the time comes.

SPEAKER_01:

And you guys are those people.

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that's so cool. So and there's so there's really no this is all Gen X or Gen Alpha or or boomers. It it covers all generations, right?

SPEAKER_00:

It does, and I think that's the beauty of it. Cause like I said, you know, you need to learn from women before you, and you need to learn from the women who are after you. And so when we have these missions and we have just this mix of, you know, early 20s, late 50s, mid-30s, you know, and we're all there, like the the advice that we bring and the guidance and the stories that we share, um, it's just a lot that you can't get from just the same kind of age bracket if you just stick to, you know, the same kind of thing. Like people have different experiences. Uh, and it's I think it's really important for women to learn from each other like that.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Sure, because even your volunteers are they're all over the place, right?

SPEAKER_00:

Yep.

SPEAKER_01:

That's so cool. That's so cool. I absolutely love that. So, how does somebody let's say somebody wants to well, let's do two things. Let's say somebody wants to volunteer. How do they go about that?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so on our website we have a volunteer form, and then you can just scroll to whichever affiliate is in your area, um, and then it automatically sends it to them, and then they'll reach out to you and get you uh updated with the the next upcoming missions and ways that you could support and things like that.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. So I probably would not be accepted as a volunteer. I'm sure there's something else I could do, but you know what?

SPEAKER_00:

We we have my my husband has come and um helped with like the the yard thing, like yard work and stuff like that, where we had absolutely no we were not good at that, so we had him come and follow. We've helped with things like that.

SPEAKER_01:

And we've also called in the expert.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, right. Exactly. And we've also helped um so our affiliates, we we do allow them to to choose, you know, if they want to help, like single fathers or anything like that. So we've actually had some nominees that have been men that they have helped. Um, and and so yeah, everybody needs help sometimes, you know.

SPEAKER_01:

We all do, yeah. And some of us need more help than others.

unknown:

Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_01:

Just saying.

SPEAKER_00:

Maybe the two people right here, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01:

Exactly. So, okay. Last quit I know the other I said I was gonna ask two questions. I only asked one. When it comes time to starting a new affiliate, let's say you somebody reaches out and says, I heard about your organization. It sounds amazing, and it does. I would like to start an affiliate in my little hometown. What's the process there?

SPEAKER_00:

We um so we have just this year really worked on creating like an onboarding process with training and things like that. So you can go to the website and we have a link to become an affiliate, and then you just put in a few bits and pieces of information so we can get the process started. Um, and then we'll work with you through the whole process. We got training, um, we meet for an interview, um, we help set everything up. We offer like ongoing support, and we also offer kind of two different tracks that you can go on. So, you know, some people come into this really just wanting to do a few missions a year. They're not looking to bring funds or to to grow or anything, they're just really looking to just for that hands-on help. And then we have some affiliates who are like, you know, going into like larger cities and they're like, I want a team, I want to raise funds, you know, I want to do all that. So we do offer for both of those um because you know, we feel like either one is is extremely important to the organization. It's um we try and make it as very supported as possible because we know it does take, you know, a bit to get up and running and to, you know, get volunteers and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, for sure. I was gonna ask about that too. Does each affiliate do their own fundraising, or do you guys help out with that?

SPEAKER_00:

They do, they do their own fundraising. So we're just finishing up getting um approved for charitable solicitations in all the states. Uh so we're we're about 45 states done. So we're waiting on the last few. Um but that's something new to our affiliates. They've been able to start fundraising this last year, which has been really cool for them.

SPEAKER_01:

You thought starting at C was hard.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Because each state has, I'm sure, its own rules and regulations, and oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00:

It's it's like the line. I it's like every state is its own country, I feel like. I'm like, what do you mean this doesn't apply?

SPEAKER_01:

You're not wrong.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so that that's definitely been a learning curve for sure.

SPEAKER_01:

I was gonna ask about I think I got that one already. Okay, so last question. In what ways has the work at Hot Mess Express changed your own understanding of kindness, resilience, and community, if at all. Maybe it hasn't changed it. Maybe you had it there already, and that's why you started this.

SPEAKER_00:

No, I mean it definitely has changed. I, as much as I can tell you now and preach about, you know, all of our houses look lived in and it's okay to fall behind and all the things. I am a work in progress myself. It has taken several years for me to even start to think like that. So, you know, this organization though has helped me to realize everything that I've shared today is like that, you know, we aren't alone in this, that everybody's houses look that they live there, and that's okay. Um, and also that it's okay to ask for help. You know, I also grew up in the same generation as a lot of the women who asked for help. And that's not something that's like ingrained in our our minds, you know, it is very much put in our heads from an early age that this is stuff we should just know, and there's shame in asking for help in it because that means you're failing. And so I have a lot of that in my head, but being surrounded by all these women who are like, actually, no, we are all struggling. Nope, that's hard. Nope, that that happens to all of us, has really changed my mind about asking for help. And it's okay to ask for help, and there's no shame. And people feel good when you trust them to ask for help and they can offer that to you, you know. So yeah, that's something I've definitely taken away from it.

SPEAKER_01:

Fantastic. Brittany Tran, thank you so much. Oh my gosh, I absolutely love the Hot Mass Express. I'm pretty sure there are a couple chapters up by me in the Twin Cities area of Minneapolis and St. Paul. I might have to reach out and see if there's anything I can do for them. But you guys are amazing and the work that you do for women in your community is it's fresh, it's new. I don't there's no I'm not aware of any other nonprofit like yours out there right now. So kudos for you guys for starting that.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01:

Huh?

SPEAKER_00:

I love any chance to talk about Hotmask. I'm sure you can relate when you have something you feel passionate about, you know. I mean, it just brings such joy to talk about it and share about it. So I always appreciate the opportunity to do that.

SPEAKER_01:

You're not wrong. You're not wrong. Thank you so much for taking the time. We will be in touch later, but I really I I I'm blessed to have you guys come on, have you come on and talk about this with me.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you. I really appreciate it. It's been so nice to talk with you. I really enjoyed it, and I I look forward to hearing the episode.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Take care. Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_00:

All right, thank you. Have a great week.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Kindness Matters podcast with my guest, Brittany Tran from the Hot Mess Express. So uplifting. I really love that that they can find these people, these women, primarily, um, and come into their lives and just create um a little bit of peace or a little bit of community in that home. Fantastic work. All of Britney's uh contact information will be in the show notes. Go ahead and check it out. If you're interested, if you think that that's something that you might want to do, go ahead and check that out. Um I hope this episode left you feeling a little easier, a little bit more hopeful about the state of the world that we all share. If you did enjoy this episode, please feel free to tell your friends, family, co-workers about us. Also, don't forget to subscribe to our newsletter. Again, the link is at the show notes at the bottom there. It's absolutely free. You'll just get an email once a month in your uh inbox. And uh I'm absolutely sure you'll enjoy that message. Also, don't forget to follow us on our socials, Facebook, LinkedIn. You have been listening to the Kindness Matters podcast. We will be back again next week with a brand new episode, and we would be honored if you would join us again. Until then, remember, kindness matters, and so do you.