The Kindness Matters Podcast
So. Much. Division. Let's talk about how to change that. Re-engage as neighbors, friends, co-workers and family. Let's set out to change the world. Strike that. Change A World. One person at a time, make someone's life a little better and then do it again tomorrow and the day after that, through kindness.
Kindness is a Super-Power that each of us has within us. It is so powerful it has the potential to change not only your life but those around you, too. Let's talk about kindness.
The Kindness Matters Podcast
A Humanizing Look at Immigration
The national conversation around immigration is often filled with misconceptions, oversimplifications, and dehumanizing rhetoric. But behind the headlines and political talking points are real human beings with profound stories of sacrifice, resilience, and hope.
In this deeply moving conversation, host Mike Rathbun sits down with Rosa Casquino, a Latinx licensed clinical social worker and trauma therapist who specializes in supporting survivors within immigrant communities. As an immigrant herself who came to the US from Peru at age two and lived undocumented until age 18, Rosa brings both professional expertise and personal experience to this crucial discussion.
Rosa powerfully challenges common myths about immigration, explaining that undocumented individuals don't receive free healthcare, housing, or food stamps as many believe. Instead, many pay taxes using Taxpayer Identification Numbers while never receiving the benefits they contribute to. She shares heart-wrenching stories of people who have survived near-death experiences crossing deserts and waters, human trafficking, and extreme violence – all to provide for families they've left behind.
The conversation reveals uncomfortable truths: there is rarely a straightforward path to citizenship for most immigrants despite decades of contribution; immigrants often take essential jobs most Americans won't do; and families make unimaginable sacrifices that continue to affect them emotionally decades later. Rosa's mother still cries about not getting to say goodbye to her own mother 40 years ago.
Perhaps most powerfully, Rosa suggests we change our fundamental question from "why are they coming?" to "what have they survived to get here?" This simple shift acknowledges the humanity at the center of immigration – something too often missing from our national discourse.
Join us for this eye-opening discussion that looks beyond politics to find the human stories that deserve our attention, compassion, and understanding. Share this episode with someone who needs to hear these perspectives, and follow us on social media to continue this important conversation.
Facts about undocumented individuals you may have not heard:
Undocumented workers can pay tax on their wages.
In fact, some estimates place the amount of revenue paid in federal, state and local taxes at $100 Billion.
You may have heard, and believed, that the influx of undocumented immigrants bring crime to a community. That’s verifiably not true.
Empathy and compassion can go a long way towards having a genuine conversation on how to fix our broken immigration systems.
This podcast is a proud member of the Mayday Media Network. If you have an idea for a podcast and need some production assistance or have a podcast and are looking for a supportive network to join, check out maydaymedianetwork.com.
Like what you hear on the podcast? Follow our social media for more uplifting, inspirational and feel-good content.
Well, hello there and welcome. You are listening to the Kindness Matters podcast and I am your host, Mike Rathbun. What is this podcast all about? It's about kindness. It's a pushback against everything negative that we see in the news and on social media today, and it's a way to highlight people, organizations, that are simply striving to make their little corner of the world a little better place. If you want to join in on the conversation, feel free, Go ahead and follow us on all of your social media feeds. We're on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok. We're even on LinkedIn under Mike Rathbun. Check us out. We're even on LinkedIn under Mike Rathbun. Check us out and, in the meantime, so sit back, relax, enjoy and we'll get into the Kindness Matters podcast.
Speaker 1:Hey, welcome everybody to the show. I am so happy that you could join us and I am so grateful that you deemed this show important enough to spend 30 minutes or so of your time on. Thank you so much for that. Your generosity humbles me. Remember, if there's anything in this episode that you hear that uplifts you or inspires you or motivates you, please make sure to share that with your friends, your family, your coworkers, strangers on the street, whoever that might be. I would really appreciate it and make sure to follow us on our socials too. The links will be in the show notes. As far as our show today goes. In the show notes as far as our show today goes.
Speaker 1:For some time now, the national conversation around immigration has centered around a lot of vague generalities, right? Phrases that start with those people or portray nearly anyone who comes across the border as breaking law are meant to paint a negative picture of certain individuals. And I don't want to get into the politics of immigration, I really don't but I thought it would be helpful if we could add some context to the conversation to look at the people who come to this country as individuals with different needs and different desires, instead of as criminals. Right, and in order to do that, I can think of absolutely nobody better than my guest today, Rosa Casquino. Rosa Casquino, she's a Latinx licensed clinical social worker, trauma therapist and speaker. She specializes in supporting survivors of childhood sexual abuse, narcissistic abuse and complex trauma, with a focus on the Latinx and immigrant communities focus on the Latinx and immigrant communities. She also provides psychological immigration evaluations and offers trainings and educational workshop for agencies and companies on trauma, informed and culturally responsive care. Welcome to the show, Rosa. Thanks for coming.
Speaker 2:Thanks so much, Mike, for having me on. I appreciate you.
Speaker 1:Did I mess up any of that?
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:I really thought I was going to stumble over narcissistic.
Speaker 2:That's great.
Speaker 1:Awesome, awesome, awesome. So, yeah, I mean, I get so tired of just. I should really stay off social media is what I should really be doing.
Speaker 2:A lot of us should right. I call it practicing good social media hygiene at times, because it's so overwhelming.
Speaker 1:Yep, yep, absolutely. Because when you see, like news stories, where you know a judge strikes down one of the policies or one of the laws or one of the, whatever it is, and you go into the comments in there and it's always broke the law, illegal, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and I, I really think, I wish that everybody could see each of these people that comes in comes here for for who? As human beings? Right, because we lose that. We lose, yes, we lose that image of this isn't an illegal or this or that. It's a human being.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, and that's what I appreciate about this conversation, mike, is that we're working on humanizing the immigration side of you know the immigration topic right, the immigrant story and bringing really awareness to the invisible trauma of migration, because that's that's what happens to a lot of the people that are coming over here. It is something that is a really difficult decision and experience for so many. As I've worked with you know the immigrant community for over 10 years and myself being an immigrant. It is a story, everybody has their story and they're not all joyful and you know, I think there's an image of the yellow brick road at times, but it is not the way it is.
Speaker 1:It isn't yeah no, I mean, I, I can't imagine picking up everything I own and putting it in a bag and traveling hundreds, if not thousands of miles through some really nasty areas, just for a shot at a better life. And that's really what's happening here, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Yes, yes it is. You know. I came to the US when I was two. I was born in Peru, my dad came first and then, you know, once he got settled in, my mom came, and she still cries about the day that she left because she did not get a chance to say goodbye to her mother.
Speaker 2:That was the last time she ever saw her mom and that was 40 years ago, and to this day she still cries about it, the fact that she had to leave her entire family and life behind, to come here and give me, and then my brother, the opportunities for a life that wasn't bound to you know, to the earth at times, that it wasn't bound to poverty, that wasn't bound to political unrest. That could you know that could occur, that is occurring right now in so many different countries, and you know so. I feel like I've owed it to her, and to so many immigrant men and women, to do the best that I can and to be able to support my community.
Speaker 1:Is that what inspired you to get into this type of work?
Speaker 2:Yes, so I mean growing up as an immigrant and undocumented immigrant, actually up until the age of 18. I didn't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was undocumented to that age, so I understand the struggles and the fears that can come up for so many of the individuals today, right? So, as I mentioned, that was the process that that I went through, and I not only did I grow up as an immigrant, but I also grew up in a violent household. I am a survivor of sexual trauma, and so all of that at a young age, when I was a teenager, made me want to get into the field of psychology. I wanted to be a child psychologist to help out kids that were going through what I was going through.
Speaker 1:Wow, I can't even imagine. Wow, I can't even imagine. So what, what? And I again I can't, I can't imagine a situation so bad that would require me to do that. You've. You've dealt with a lot. Are the stories all fairly similar?
Speaker 2:Yes, there's stories of extreme poverty. There's stories of extreme abuse, of extreme loneliness and isolation. So many people that I have worked with that themselves were the caregivers for their siblings at a really young age, because there was so much poverty in their household that they came over here, they left their young siblings, they left their family, they left their home just to be able to send money so that people can eat.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's crazy, so that people can eat. Yeah, yeah, that's crazy, and I mean I just I keep going back to this because it just boggles my mind that I mean, and really, when you're immigrating to another country, you don't know if you'll even be allowed to enter, but it's worth that trek.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, it is. That's the thing it's. So there isn't any hope at home for so many people. That's the thing. The hope is gone and the only thing that is sparking the hope is that, hopefully, in coming here, that there is an opportunity for work. People don't come here expecting free things. I think that's a huge misconception that a lot of you know, as we're talking about social media, that people are coming for the free healthcare, for free housing, for free this. That's a blatant lie, misconception, rhetoric, propaganda that is being spewed out there. That is not true at all.
Speaker 1:Wow, and yes, thank you for bringing that up, because I did want to address that and I think there are so many misconceptions out there that you know people just walk into this country and they could get free health care and they get a house and they get all this stuff and that's none of it's true.
Speaker 2:No, absolutely not. I used to work in a domestic violence shelter and we were actually one of the only shelter in LA County that that was able to bring in people that were undocumented into the shelter. Because we because that funding wasn't federal funding, it was a different type of funding that allowed us to do that. Now, if it had been federal funding, we wouldn't have been able to bring in anybody that was undocumented and help them and house them while they were escaping a very abusive relationship.
Speaker 2:All the other shelters asked for a social security number or wanted them to be citizens or residents in order to be able for them to go into those shelters and escape abuse.
Speaker 1:For domestic violence. Shelter For domestic violence, for domestic violence shelter, yes, wow, yeah, that's crazy, was it the same for like a homeless shelter?
Speaker 2:Well, we were home. Yeah, it was a homeless violence shelter. Yes, so it was the same at that time that was over 10 years ago. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's, that's crazy, so. So what does the typical undocumented immigrant?
Speaker 2:do they get any kind of assistance at all, or do they just make it on their own? I guess it depends on the state right.
Speaker 2:Different states have different benefits and initiatives and I know in the state of California there was Medi-Cal that was being given. Now that's again because of what's happening with the current administration. That's probably going to be taken. That will be taken away for, I believe, anybody over the age of 19. So at least kids are being kids will still, hopefully still be receiving that, but not adults who may need it, who have, may have health conditions that would really need their medication. So that's that's something that is really difficult. I mean I'm blessed to live in the state of California where we can continue to support and provide services through grants and funding and donations to individuals that are, that are struggling, and but no other than that. I mean people do not qualify unless you have a social security number. You do not qualify for Section 8 housing, you don't qualify for food stamps, you don't qualify for certain resources. That is completely untrue, that people are taking taxpayer money and using those resources without being here with proper documentation.
Speaker 1:Right, god, that's just. It's so frustrating, isn't it? Yes, because I mean, if you want to have an honest conversation about immigration, at least let's get the facts right.
Speaker 2:Yes, I mean. That's why I think it's important to have this conversation. I appreciate the platform that you're creating right now, mike, because there is such a misconception, and there's a misconception in a lot of white spaces, and so I want to be able to come on to these spaces and be able to put a face to the Latinx individual and say this is what's actually happening and going on in our community.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, and I appreciate you wanting to have that conversation too Can you give us an example of I mean you don't have to use names or anything like that just a typical person that well, I mean I suppose you could use your mom, but or, or you know, just somebody who's fleeing something and and what they went through just to get here.
Speaker 2:Oh, I mean I've heard so many stories personally within my own community and in the individuals that I work with. I mean people have survived near-death experiences crossing over in the desert, people have survived near drowning and when they're crossing over through water. People have survived human trafficking, rape, being held prisoners and being sexually assaulted, and then traffic for labor because they were brought over and they had to pay back their debt. These are the atrocities that people are facing, and particularly women that are coming over here to be able to provide for their parents, for their siblings, for any young little kids that they may have left behind.
Speaker 2:That's what they're going through and they still make it and they still come. They still find work and they still work hard. They work 40 plus hours to be able to send money home for their families to survive be able to send money home for their families to survive.
Speaker 1:And I defy any American citizen right now to put in that kind of work. You can look all over and yes, I know there are people out there that are struggling and they're working 60 hours a week, can't afford their insurance, but they get insurance. So I mean, I'm not saying that you know some people aren't struggling. They are.
Speaker 2:But talk to me. Do you know about the Darien Gap? Tell me about it.
Speaker 1:Okay, never mind, it's part of the, it's part of the trail that comes. Oh shoot, I thought maybe you would have known about it. Never mind, pull out my Gilda Radner, never mind. But yeah, I mean, we're talking about how far is it from, say, peru to the border.
Speaker 2:Oh the border. I could tell you, the flight from LAX to Peru is about eight hours straight, almost nine hours straight a flight.
Speaker 1:That's a direct flight.
Speaker 2:A direct flight almost nine hours yeah.
Speaker 2:Wow, so we're talking months, months possibly, it depends, right? I think my mom was able to come to San Diego and then from San Diego she crossed over by land and water. She tells me the story of when she was crossing water, that I was two years old and she was carrying me and it was nighttime and she was terrified and people were asking her if she wanted help like carrying me, and she was so afraid of letting me go because she was so afraid that she would never see me again right, and that was probably a very real fear yeah, it was.
Speaker 2:This was 40 years ago. She was a 20 something year old young woman, alone in a country with language. She didn't speak with a young child and in fear yeah, yeah, that's, that's crazy, but I so appreciate that.
Speaker 1:You are a clinical social worker, right, yes, okay. And when we say that you do psychological immigration evaluations, what does that entail?
Speaker 2:immigration evaluations. What does that entail? So psychological immigration evaluations is a thorough psychological assessment of an individual that is either petitioning to remain in the US or they're petitioning for a family member. So, depending on the type of petition and what I have to illustrate in that is the emotional, psychological, financial impact that if they left that it would have either on the US citizen here or, if they left, the type of psychological impact that they could face if they were to be deported. So, for example, there are so many different qualifications. Like U-Visa is if somebody's been a victim of a crime here in the United States by a US citizen, victim of a crime here in the United States by a US citizen and they help law enforcement be able to like, navigate and report that and help them detain the person, then they could qualify based on that. But there would have to be a significant emotional and psychological impact to the crime that they were part of or witnessed.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:All right, all right.
Speaker 1:Yeah and I can't. Yeah, I mean, how is it a reasonable, do most people there? I go generalizing again. I'm not going to do that as a general rule. Do most people think that they will be able to just live here until they can become citizens, or they just no?
Speaker 2:There's no hope there. The thing is, there is this. I don't know. I think a lot of US citizens or people think that there is a pathway to citizenship. There isn't a pathway to citizenship. The United States has not created that. The really the ways to do it is through asylum, through like refugee, through like if you get married and through some of these petitions that people don't know. But they have to have gone through something difficult.
Speaker 1:They have to have gone through a violent crime, human trafficking, seeking like a political refugee in order to try to apply, they have to provide evidence that if they were sent back, they would be most likely killed.
Speaker 2:Absolutely yes, and so they have to be under an extreme like hardship or you know, or or psychological impact in order to even petition. And that doesn't mean that they're going to get approved right, right, right.
Speaker 1:So they just live. They just live here and and they don't collect any kind of social services, really no, they pay taxes and they don't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they pay.
Speaker 1:Talk to me about how that works. I mean because I yes, so an undocumented worker can get a social security number.
Speaker 2:No, it's a TIN number or E&I number. I forgot what it's called. It's TIN or E&I. I forgot Temporary identification. Yeah, it's Taxpayer identification number. There you go.
Speaker 1:There you go. Tin Taxpayer identification number. Forgot what it's called. It's scenery and I I forgot and it's a number. Yeah, it's an taxpayer identification number there you go.
Speaker 2:There you go 10 taxpayer identification number. Perfect, yes and uh. With that they can file taxes. So they can pay taxes. Right, that's to kind of build some history for themselves and say I'm here and I want, I'm working and I want to pay my taxes but they will never see a dime in social security or any of it Not at all.
Speaker 1:Never Not at all.
Speaker 2:Not at all. I mean, it'll help them eventually like say, okay, if they want to buy a house or if they want to be able to do something like with a US citizen, right then they can provide, like you know tax, like you know, years of taxes.
Speaker 1:Look, I'm paying taxes, yes but they will not collect the benefits of that, and I think that's another one of those misconceptions that they are a drain on our economy, when in fact they're actually contributing to it.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely. They contribute so much and take so little. And there are so many jobs that immigrants do that US citizens will never do.
Speaker 1:I would never do that.
Speaker 2:Who wants to be in the fields, in the heat, working at the wee hours of the morning and in agriculture, or in a meatpacking plant or in a meatpacking plant and freezing in Nebraska.
Speaker 1:Southern Minnesota.
Speaker 2:Minnesota, exactly. People don't want to do those jobs.
Speaker 1:No, no, I laugh when they talk about it. You always hear it. They're taking our jobs.
Speaker 2:Yes, oh shit.
Speaker 1:You would never do that job. Never. No, Don't give me that crap, it is BS. Yes, Um, so, so I'll I'll. I have a memory. Um, my, my dad worked for an airline in the eighties and he worked, he worked in San Diego and I went out to visit him and we were going to go to Tijuana, right?
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:But we were driving and we hit a stoplight by like a lumberyard and there were all these guys standing around at the corner. I'm like what's going on over there? Day laborers. That was the first time I'd ever seen anything like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, really Okay yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, I had a sheltered life. Okay, I had a sheltered white boy life. What can I say? I grew up in Montana.
Speaker 2:You hustle right. That's what we do as immigrants. Nobody's going to give us a handout.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:We have to work for it.
Speaker 1:And you're not asking for a handout either. No, absolutely, you want to work for it.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and that's what I said earlier. That's what I said earlier. I feel that I there's a commitment that I have made to myself because of the sacrifices that my parents made coming here not just my parents, but so many immigrants, so many people that are parents and grandparents, generations of individuals that have that have left their home life to come here, and I have a duty to do the best that I can. I have a duty to do the best that I can in order to honor that sacrifice that they have made.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're standing on their shoulders, basically, yeah, yeah, I mean when you think back 40 years ago, because your mom was so incredibly brave. I get to talk to you about this.
Speaker 2:Absolutely no. I am truly, truly blessed of her sacrifice.
Speaker 1:Now is your mom still down in San Diego area? Oh no, she's in my kitchen, probably cooking nice yeah, although it's probably lunch where you are yes, yeah, she helps me a lot, she's, that's so cool and, and I think family means more to immigrant communities.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's huge. Yeah, we have to rally around each other Again. People have left their homes or communities generations and they come here and reconnect. Immigrants will find each other all the time. That's cool.
Speaker 1:Yes, they will know each other's the time. Yeah, that's cool.
Speaker 2:Yes, they will know each other's accents and they will connect and they will bond, and you know, and then bond over food again.
Speaker 1:That's way cool. Yeah, I also like to bond over food.
Speaker 2:Right Next time you go.
Speaker 1:No, it's just. It's such a heartbreaking thing for me to see us having these conversations but completely dismissing or leaving out the humanity. When we talk about immigrants, we're talking about human beings who, I mean at the bare minimum, are deserving of compassion and empathy and basic human kindness, right.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely, and I mean I know that the system is broken. We do not have in the US, we do not have a good immigration system, and I recognize that. But there also hasn't been any movement forward to create a good immigration system.
Speaker 1:It's like they just leave it for every four years for election time, so they can bitch about it.
Speaker 2:Absolutely yes, I am such a pun now today. It's a heavy subject, you know it's a subject with a lot of emotion.
Speaker 1:It is, it really is. Our country needs to have an honest conversation, without the generalizations, without the misinformation, and say you know what's fair to everybody, right? Because I mean you're talking about and it's going to affect. If we were to deport every undocumented person today, just some magic spell or what have you, I think Americans would be absolutely shocked at the breakdown, basically the breakdown of society.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, yeah. And I mean, and when we look at immigrants, we're looking at people from so many countries, not just this is not just.
Speaker 2:Yes, I mean, we're looking at people from you know Southeast Asia. We're looking at people from you know even Canada. You know from so so many different countries, and I think that's what has made the US so beautiful our diversity and there's such a huge like movement away from that and how we should look like as a country, but this is what we have. We have looked like this for such a long time, like diverse people being able to come together and have conversations that you and I are having right now. What would the world be like if we weren't able to come together like this?
Speaker 1:yeah, I can remember growing up and we would it was a source of pride to say that America is a melting pot. You know, you said that proudly.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And I don't think people still feel that way, some of them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know, I used to be so proud to be here and be a US citizen, and even I just recently traveled. I just came back from Japan and when people asked where I was from, I was like Los Angeles, california, I don't even want to say the United States. Or from Peru I was from. I was like Los Angeles, california, I didn't even want to say the United States because. Or from Peru.
Speaker 1:I'm originally from Peru. I'm from Peru. Your English is very good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I was concerned about maybe the stereotype or the backlash that may come when people found out I was from the US.
Speaker 1:That's a valid concern, yeah, yeah. Well, rosa, I really really, really appreciate your, your point of view and your perspective on this, and maybe, if we have more conversations like this, some people wake up and start demanding that we have an honest conversation about immigrants, regardless of where they come from, and I'm hopeful. How about that?
Speaker 2:Yes, I mean, you're right. I think, instead of asking like, why are they here, why are they coming? And I think it's important to start asking like, what have they survived to get here? Because it's not, it's not the problem to solve, right, it's it's people with stories that are really worth hearing, with experiences that can contribute so much to our current society. It's like stories of struggle and also triumph and being yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:I think some people just think that somebody in Argentina wakes up one Okay, that might be a, maybe not Argentina, but somebody from South America just wakes up one day and goes I'm going to break into the US.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It doesn't happen that way and that's not what's going on. Yeah, yeah, we need to hear these stories and we need to have honest conversations and not misinformation or any of that stuff. Thank you so much for your time today, rosa. I really, really, really appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, Mike. Thank you for creating this platform.
Speaker 1:You're very welcome. Let's talk again.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes.
Speaker 1:We'll do it.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Take care and we'll talk soon.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, Mike.
Speaker 1:I want to thank you for taking this time to listen to this episode today with my guest, rosa Aquino. I hope you were able to take something positive from the time you spent with us. Maybe you'll be inspired, maybe you'll be motivated to have those conversations that need to be had, maybe you'll be moved. If you experienced any of those positive feelings, please consider sharing this podcast with your friends and family. I am always striving to offer you a better podcast, so give me some feedback, let me know how you think you're doing, email me, leave me a message on my socials it would mean the world and also make sure to feel free to follow us on our social media platforms like facebook, instagram, linkedin and tiktok. All of those links are in the show notes.
Speaker 1:This podcast is part of the Mayday Media Network. If you have an idea for a podcast and need some production assistance, or if you have a podcast and you're looking for a supportive network to join, check out maydaymedianetworkcom and also check out the many different shows like Afrocentric Spoil, my Movie Generation Mixtape In a Pickle Radio Show, wake Up and Dream with D'Anthony Palin, staxo Pax and the Time Pals. We will be back again next week with a new episode and we would be honored if you would join us. You've been listening to the Kindness Matters Podcast. I'm your host, mike Rathbun. Have a fantastic week.
