The Kindness Matters Podcast
So. Much. Division. Let's talk about how to change that. Re-engage as neighbors, friends, co-workers and family. Let's set out to change the world. Strike that. Change A World. One person at a time, make someone's life a little better and then do it again tomorrow and the day after that, through kindness.
Kindness is a Super-Power that each of us has within us. It is so powerful it has the potential to change not only your life but those around you, too. Let's talk about kindness.
The Kindness Matters Podcast
Survival and Resilience: A Holocaust Survivor's Journey with Ben Lesser Part One
Join me, Mike Rathbun, for a poignant episode of the Kindness Matters Podcast, where we have the honor of hosting 96-year-old Holocaust survivor, Ben Lesser. Ben's firsthand account takes us back to his childhood in Krakow, Poland, where his once-peaceful life was irreversibly altered by the Nazi invasion. Listen as he shares the courageous decision his family made to escape the ghetto's horrors, a move that ultimately saved their lives. Through Ben's vivid memories, we confront the brutal reality of Nazi occupation, marked by violent home invasions and the relentless search for Jewish families. His story is a powerful reminder of the resilience of the human spirit amidst unimaginable adversity.
This episode also brings us to the chilling experiences within the Bochnia Ghetto, spotlighting the terror and resilience of those who lived through it. From the cramped living conditions to the relentless raids, Ben's account of survival during this dark chapter of history is both harrowing and illuminating. His reflections on the importance of preserving these memories serve as a crucial reminder of why we must continue to listen and learn from survivors. As their numbers dwindle, sharing their stories becomes even more vital in ensuring such atrocities are never repeated. Join us as we honor Ben's journey and commit to remembering the lessons of the past.
You may notice throughout the episode that Ben makes references to his book, Living a Life That Matters; from Nazi Nightmare to the American Dream. If you're interested in buying the book, either for personal or for educational use, you can pick it up here.
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Well, hello there and welcome. You are listening to the Kindness Matters podcast and I am your host, mike Rathbun. What is this podcast all about? It's about kindness. It's a pushback against everything negative that we see in the news and on social media today, and it's a way to highlight people, organizations, that are simply striving to make their little corner of the world a little better place. If you want to join in on the conversation, feel free, Go ahead and follow us on all of your social media feeds. We're on Facebook, instagram, tiktok. We're even on LinkedIn under Mike Rathbun. Check us out. We're even on LinkedIn under Mike Rathbun. Check us out and, in the meantime, so sit back, relax, enjoy and we'll get into the Kindness Matters podcast. Hello and welcome to the show, everybody. I am your host, mike Rathbun, and I just want to set this up for you if you don't mind.
Speaker 1:What you're going to hear today is a part one of potentially a three-part series dealing with probably one of the most unkind periods in our world's history. It is a first-hand account from Ben Lesser, who was a survivor of the Holocaust. During the episode, you'll hear him refer to different pictures. Our interview included pictures, but obviously that's not going to work in this format and, honestly, I guess I'm kind of happy about that because I don't think I need to share those with you, but I do think it's important to listen to Mr Lesser's story and help spread the word so that this never happens again. Now let's get on with the show.
Speaker 1:Hello and welcome everybody to the Kindness Matters podcast. I'm your host, mike Rathbun, and I am the only word I can think of is blessed to be able to speak today with Mr Ben Lesser, who is a very young, 96 year old survivor of the Holocaust and I know some of you are rolling your eyes and thinking the Holocaust that happened so long ago, but I think it's important to listen to Ben's story and remember, so that future generations remember that this happened and how horrible this was. Thank you for coming on the show with me, ben. I appreciate it. You're welcome, ben. You were born in 1928 in Krakow, poland, correct? Do you remember what life was like growing up in Poland during those days?
Speaker 2:Oh, life was beautiful in Poland in those days. Of course, when I was born, I was too young to know, right, I grew up in Krakow and it was a beautiful city and a lovely place. My family had actually like two homes. Wow, we lived in Krakow. My father's businesses were in Krakow, but in summer we would go to Munkac, hungary oh, munkac, hungary, where my grandparents from my mother's side lived, and her brothers, her sisters, her uncles, I mean. So summers we spent in Munkacz, and winter we'd go back to Krakow to go to school and so. So life was beautiful. My father had two businesses. He had a wine and syrup manufacturing business and he also had a chocolate factory. No-transcript, Life was beautiful yeah.
Speaker 2:Until.
Speaker 1:Until, yes, when you were 11 years old.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Germany invaded.
Speaker 2:Poland.
Speaker 1:Correct, and your family spent many of the next few years fleeing and hiding from the Nazis Correct. Most of us cannot imagine living like that. Can you talk about that and what it was like?
Speaker 2:Paint us a choice. If you wanted to live in Krakow, you had to go into a ghetto. You know what a ghetto is Terrible, terrible. But if you didn't want to go into the ghetto, you had a choice to go into a small community outside of Krakow. So my parents were preparing to go into the ghetto, while Well, my father's family, numbering over 200, all went into the ghetto, oh my goodness, when my father was preparing, a young man comes up to my father by the name of Michael Lieber.
Speaker 2:He says Mr Lesser, you know how I feel about Lola, your daughter. Lola, your sister. I'm in love with her, I'd love to marry her someday, but please come to the same communities that my parents and I are moving to, called Nepolomitsica. Well, my father gave me a choice to go into ghetto or Nepolomica. He chose Nepolomica. That was miracle one, because all the people who went into the ghetto a few months later were put in trains and taken to Belzec, which Belzec was an extermination camp, and everyone was exterminated, killed.
Speaker 1:And that was anybody who chose to go into the ghetto.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so now we are saved. And then in this little community? I don't know if you want to hear what happened when the Germans first marched into Krakow, Poland.
Speaker 1:Of course, yes, please Of course, yes, please.
Speaker 2:When they first marched in, about five days after they occupied the city of Krakow, a truck pulls up to the gate of our apartment where we lived and they started to bang on the gate, the super came running out. Well, what's going on? All they wanted to know is where the Jewish people lived. Truck full of soldiers. All they wanted to know where the Jewish people lived. This was the fifth day after occupation of Krakow and he was quick to oblige. He said the lessors live here and this other family? It was a three-story apartment house. There were only two Jewish couples Besides us. This was a young couple who had two daughters younger than I, and the mother gave birth to an infant little boy. About two months earlier.
Speaker 2:These Nazis came running in, pistol-whipping us, breaking down the door, pistol whipping us, and in their hands they had open sex and they were screaming throw in all your valuables money, gold, silver, anything they can find of value. They threw in and while they're beating up my father to open up the safe, we hear this terrible screaming from our neighbor's apartment. My sister, lola, and I went through the back door, from the kitchen to the yard and to their kitchen door, to the yard and to their kitchen door. And this is what we saw. This monster was holding the infant little boy by its legs and swinging it and yelling to the parents make him shut up. The parents and the daughters are screaming our baby, our baby, don't hurt our baby. With a smirk on his face you can see he was enjoying what he was doing. He smashes the baby's head into a doorpost, killing it instantly. We all jumped on him and of course the other Nazis heard something was going on. They came running in and they pulled us off him, pistol whipped us. They were a little shocked themselves to see what happened. So they said okay, hans, let's go. They gathered up all their belongings that they pilfered from us and they put it in a sack and they threw it in a truck and they took off. That was only the fifth day after occupation. From that day things started happening one thing after another.
Speaker 2:New ordinances constantly. A new ordinance is usually glad to wear a star of david. The next ordinance was a curfew. You couldn't go out of your house after 7 00 pm or 7 till 7 the morning. You had a curfew. A new ordinance is Jewish. People couldn't travel anymore. You couldn't do this, you couldn't do that. You had to wear a Star of David.
Speaker 1:My goodness.
Speaker 2:Until that ordinance came in, the Jewish people may no longer reside in Krakow. But they gave us a choice and my father was preparing to go into the ghetto. But now that Michael told him he'll help us, we will move where he is moving to help us, we will move where he is moving to. He helped us load the wagon, and that's when we found out. By the way, my father's businesses were both confiscated, just taken away from him.
Speaker 1:I was going to ask about that, yeah.
Speaker 2:So now we find out that my father had 1,000 American dollars that he saved up for a rainy day. That was a small fortune in those days. Yeah, that was a lot of money. He took the money and he pasted it into a religious book between the pages, and he put it in a sack full of other books. And we're now loading the truck not the truck, the wagon and we're leaving Krakow. One hour outside the city we're being stopped, halt. Two husky Nazis jump on the wagon. The first thing they wanted to know do we have any Jewish literature Books? And they saw two sacks full of books. They picked it up and they heaved it on the side of the road. They had a mountain full of books on the side of the road. Ah, you see, they knew every Jewish family who did not go into the ghetto had to cross this road. So they were confiscating these books and they were going to have a bonfire.
Speaker 2:After everybody left, my sister Lola spoke, a beautiful German. So she walks up to him. She says look, my father is a writer. He wrote his autobiography. Let him keep this one book. He looks at her. Maybe he liked the way she spoke. He says okay, I'll give you five minutes, we can find it.
Speaker 2:The whole family started to climb on the mountain of books and finally we were chased away without a book. They, they all looked alike. We would keep sliding down. Anyway, we had no money, no book. My father is going into a new community with a family of six. Family of six, we were a family of seven, but my oldest sister, goldie, was caught at my grandfather's house in Munkac. She was there for the summer. She was caught in Munkac so she couldn't come back, which was good because Munkar was a free country. Hungary, oh okay. But my father had six in the family, not a penny to his name. Not like he can get a new job. Jewish people are not allowed to be hired, so you couldn't recognize him. And Michael rented part of a farmhouse for us. Robin, can you show some pictures?
Speaker 3:Are you not seeing the photos?
Speaker 2:We're just seeing the original one, nothing, okay.
Speaker 3:Okay, then there's a problem, I think, with zoom on their end or something, so I'm going to stop the share. I'm sorry, grandpa, we're not going to be able to do the photos, because I've been using. I've been. I'm up to date with my photos on my end photos I'm sorry, grandpa, grandpa.
Speaker 2:Oh well, that makes a big difference. I'm not prepared because I thought you were sure.
Speaker 3:I can try it one more time and see if it works.
Speaker 2:Please do this is important.
Speaker 1:Oh, there's the book burnings.
Speaker 2:Yeah, good.
Speaker 3:Now it's working. Okay, I don't know why it's working on my end, but if you don't see it, please pass.
Speaker 2:This is the farmhouse now. Can you see it, michael? In Hungary, oh, no, this were on the other half. Between the two apartments, there was a baking oven. When Michael heard what happened to my father, he had no money. He brought him a sack full of flour, figuring he'll be able to bake bread to feed the family. When my father saw the flour, his face lit up. Instead of baking bread to feed the family, he started to bake pretzels. All you need for pretzels is flour, water and salt those ingredients he had. Then he took those pretzels to the neighboring bars and offered it for sale. It was a novelty. They started to buy the pretzels. Now my father became a little baker in that community. He started to bake pretzels, cakes, cookies, mandelbrot.
Speaker 2:I was about 12 years old and I remember baking with my father to this day. Whenever I have a chance, I bake something from memory. Wow, memory. Have a chance? I bake something from memory, wow, memory. But that brings back memories me baking with my father. Anyway, that lasted for about a year. And Lola marries Michael. This is the wedding guest that you see. Oh, okay, out of all these people, only three of us survived the war. Michael, you see, he's in the middle.
Speaker 1:Is Michael in the middle. There's michael in the middle there okay, yep, lola.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've my sister and I here I am.
Speaker 1:Oh, look at you, you handsome young man 12 years old.
Speaker 2:That little boy in the white suit is my little brother, leaning against my mother. None of the people survived? Only the three of us.
Speaker 1:Wow, look at you, so handsome.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Lola marries Michael and they move out and they move into a duplex. One side of the duplex lived the owner and they lived on the other side. The owner happened to be the mayor of Nyapolomitsa, the mayor of that community. Oh, napolamitz, the mayor of that community. Oh, one day he comes home he says Michael, lola, save yourselves.
Speaker 2:I heard the rumor there is going to be a raid against the Jewish people. They called it, they put lava a raid against the Jewish people tonight or tomorrow night, save yourselves. When Michael heard that, he went out and he hired a wagon with the driver and we snuck out in the middle of the night and the only place we could go to was the next city, which was called Bochnia. Bochnia had a ghetto that meant we had to go inside the ghetto. Bochnia ghetto had a very bad reputation. What happened? Every so often, two or three dump trucks would come into the ghetto and the Nazis would go from house to house, pull out the children from their beds and threw them into these dump trucks and as they filled up two or three dump trucks, they would start to pull out. Obviously, the parents were running behind these trucks and screaming for their children, but these cultured people had machine guns at the end of each truck and they would mow down the parents running behind these trucks trucks that resonated throughout Europe. Stay away from Bochtia Ghetto. We had no choice and it's a good thing we left, because that night there was a raid against the Jewish people. They threw them out in dump trucks and took them to the forest. The men were given shovels, they dug a ditch. All the Jewish people from Nephilim were killed. How do we know this? After the war, lola and I survived.
Speaker 2:We went back to Nyepalumitsa to find out what happened to all the people. The farmers were telling us as they went to the forest to pick mushrooms and berries to sell in the morning in the market. They saw the trucks pull in. They were hiding behind trees and they saw everything that happened. They said the ground was moving three days afterwards. They were such sadists that's horrific.
Speaker 2:So here we are in Bokhnya Ghetto. The driver unloads us in the middle of a street on the sidewalk with all our belongings. All of a sudden, michael sees his school buddy, who happened to be a Jewish policeman, inside the ghetto. When Michael sees them, he says Farber. His name is Farber and Farber asks him what are you doing here? And he tells his story about Niepomizh. He says don't worry, michael, you and your family, about Niepomice. He says don't worry, michael, you and your family, I'll find a place for you to live. And he took Michael and his parents and his sisters to a place some place in Lola, a place. Then he took my father, my mother and me and my little brother to another place.
Speaker 2:It was one big room. There were eight other people inside that room. Now we were 12. We were 12. Imagine 12 people in one room, no beds. All they had was straw on the ground, blankets on top of the straw, and blankets are separating each family. Oh, wow, from the wall. Yeah, everybody inside the ghetto had to work. If you didn't work, you didn't receive any rations, you'll die. Yeah, my job. I was 12 years, maybe 12 and a half at the time, working in a uniform factory. I was sewing on buttons on uniforms. It was easy work, but 12 hours a day, very little sleep and very little food. This went on for about a year and a half and Farber, this friendly Jewish policeman, goes over to Michael and Lola and he says Michael, lola, save yourselves. We heard the rumor there is going to be a raid against the Jewish people tonight inside the ghetto. Ever since those trucks came in and pulled out those children from the beds, every house and every apartment had a hiding place. They called them bunkers. Hiding place, they called them bunkers.
Speaker 1:Bunkers, bunkers, yeah oh.
Speaker 2:Looks like a wardrobe. That's when I found out that our bunker was in this nice piece of furniture where you hang your coats and jackets. You see, you open the door, you push the clothing apart, the back panel would slide apart and there was a hole in the wall and the 12 of us could crawl through that hole, stand there all night. The last person had to close the door behind them, put the closing back, close the back panel back, and we stood there all night long, shivering and shaking. It was snowing Between the two buildings. The roof was open. Lucky for us, the street levels were connected between the two buildings so they didn't see us.
Speaker 2:And we stood there all night long, shivering and shaking, and we heard screamings. We heard shooting, Dogs barking. We heard the dogs couldn't believe our eyes Laying in the snow, our neighbors torn apart by dogs. We saw a mother with a young infant. The mother is still alive. The ink was torn apart, my God. And people going around in pushcarts, picking up these bodies and pieces of bodies and putting them in pushcarts and taking them to the ghetto square, piling them up in the ghetto square as high as they could, them up in the ghetto square as high as they could and these cultured people came with machine guns, I mean came with gasoline cans, and they poured gasoline over the bodies and they started the Bokhna Ghetto human bonfire. Can you imagine what it was like?
Speaker 1:No, no, I can't.
Speaker 2:Dreams, the yelling, the stench, the ashes. My God, what a. And I knew that my sister, lola and Michael were hiding in a doghouse. You heard the right a doghouse. You picked up the floor from the doghouse. There was a ladder and there were beddings and food and all kind of stuff inside for seven people. Oh my gosh, seven people.
Speaker 1:That was their bunker.
Speaker 2:Michael and Lola's telling this story. Now, as they were about to go into the doghouse, another Jewish policeman by the name of Morris Schiller walks up to them. He says Michael Lola, I know about your doghouse hiding place. Unless you take my mother here and my sister with you, I'm going to tell the authorities. Well, there was only room for seven. Now there were nine. What can? Michael and Lola walked away so the other seven would have room to hide. Oh my goodness. And Michael and Lola are walking away and they're walking the street and a friendly Jewish policeman, farber, sees them. He says Michael Lola, why aren't you hiding someplace? He says. He tells them the story about Morris Schiller. So Farber says Michael Lola, don't worry, I have a place for you to hide, where my sister and her two children are hiding. There's room for you. Follow me.
Speaker 3:Oh.
Speaker 2:And Lola. Anyway, they follow him to a leather tannery. Above the leather tannery there was a water tank. He says my sister and two children are inside a water tank. There's a stepladder in the back. When you get up there is a rope. You can lower yourself into the tank.
Speaker 2:In the morning, when you hear my knock, a certain knock, that means the coast is clear, you can come out. So Michael is telling the story. Now they're going down, they lower themselves with the rope and they see his sister is standing knee-deep in water, her little girl is waist-high in water and the mother is holding a little infant boy shaking, who was asleep. So Lola picks up the little boy asleep. So Lola picks up the little boy, michael picks up the little girl from the water and they all stood there in the water shaking all night long. They had little water rats nibbling at their feet. It was terrible. It was terrible. They heard the same thing. We heard shooting dogs, barking, screaming, yelling. Towards. Morning it got quiet. When it got quiet, farber gave the signal on the tank the coast is clear. And Michael and Lola and everybody pulled themselves up with the ropes and came down the ladder and after they got some circulation back into their legs. The first thing they wanted to know is go to the doghouse and find out what happened to Michael's parents. And this is what they saw Everybody laying in the snow with a bullet hole in the middle of their head.
Speaker 2:Little Marika, who's seven years old. Lola made her a doll for her birthday. She's still holding the doll. When Lola saw that, she started to scream and cry. Michael said Lola, stop, they're going to hear you. They're still burning bodies. They don't may hear you.
Speaker 2:According to the Jewish religion, you're supposed to bury your loved ones within 12 or 24 hours. So Michael went out and he found the riggity wheelbarrow. He put the family on the wheelbarrow, little Marika still holding the doll hanging down, and they're wheeling him to the cemetery to bury them. At the cemetery, michael found a shovel and he dug a hole and he put the family into the hole. Lola with her bare hands, icy ground.
Speaker 2:All of a sudden, maurice Schiller walks up to them. He says it wasn't my fault and it wasn't his fault because his own mother and his own sister were also killed. However, he says that grave you just put your family into. I want it for my mother and my sister. You're going to have to take your family out. Well, lola started to cry and Michael says well, you know he has the power over us. They took the family out and put them into a wheelbarrow again and took them to another place and started all over again. While this is going on, there's a jeep coming up the hill and it stops at the gate of the cemetery. A jeep, two husky Nazis jump out, they come into the gate of the cemetery and they're yelling Morris Schiller, morris Schiller. He heard them. He walks up. Here I am. They pulled out the revolver and they shot him. This is what they did to people who have seen too much. They didn't want to leave any witnesses.
Speaker 1:So they killed him. That was Michael's friend from school, correct? No, oh, I'm sorry, okay.
Speaker 2:The one who had a mother and a sister.
Speaker 2:Right, gotcha, I'm sorry, I apologize, so they killed him, who had a mother and his sister right gotcha. I'm sorry, I apologize, so they killed him. Now michael and lola are holding each other going back down the hill crying to tell you this story, what, what happened at this point, how my family was able to take out 55 other Jewish people from the ghetto and we were all outside the ghetto. It's a long story, but it's a beautiful story. Mike, all I can tell you is don't let anybody not read my book. When you read my book, you're going to hear the whole story. I can't tell you that it would take too long. It would take too long.
Speaker 1:I will have a link to your book in the show notes.
Speaker 2:When you buy the book directly from us, I will initial it, I will sign it, I will initial it, I will sign it, autograph it and write something in it. But it's very important because if you buy the book anywhere else, it's a forgery, we don't get anything out of it and the whole foundation needs money.
Speaker 1:Living a life that matters is the name of the book.
Speaker 3:I can place it into the chat and I just want to make a correction. It's not a forgery. It's sold by a third party, but any funds that when we sell it on our website, it gets recycled right back into the Zohor Foundation. So this is why it's imperative that you purchase through the foundation, and I'll put everything in the chat for you, mike.
Speaker 1:Okay, thank you. I know that a lot of this is hard to listen to. What you're hearing is a first-hand account of a horrific period of our history and, as horrific as it is and as hard as it is to listen to, I think it's also important because there aren't many Holocaust survivors left to tell this story, and my hope is that, by recording this series of podcasts and sharing them with you, that we will never forget what happened when a madman convinced his whole country to hate other human beings. We will be back again next week, and possibly the week after that, with the continuation of Ben Lesser's story. Until then, thank you for listening. I'm your host, mike Rathbun, and you've been listening to the Kindness Matters podcast. Be kind to one another.
