The Kindness Matters Podcast
So. Much. Division. Let's talk about how to change that. Re-engage as neighbors, friends, co-workers and family. Let's set out to change the world. Strike that. Change A World. One person at a time, make someone's life a little better and then do it again tomorrow and the day after that, through kindness.
Kindness is a Super-Power that each of us has within us. It is so powerful it has the potential to change not only your life but those around you, too. Let's talk about kindness.
The Kindness Matters Podcast
Breaking Barriers in Grief and Healing
After the unimaginable loss of his 15-year-old special needs son, Jason Tuttle's journey serves as a testament to resilience and compassion, offering a beacon of hope for those navigating the complexities of grief. Hear from Jason as he opens up about the shock, guilt, and eventual healing that unfolded after losing his son. His story provides a unique perspective on the role of a stay-at-home dad, the emotional and practical struggles of raising children with complex medical needs, and the transformative power of community and shared experiences.
Grief can take many forms, and Jason's narrative especially highlights how different genders process loss. He candidly shares his initial anger and overwhelming sense of responsibility, painting a raw picture of his emotional landscape. Through our conversation, we explore how societal norms around male stoicism can hinder the grieving process and the importance of breaking these barriers. Jason's journey from resisting emotional expression to finding solace in journaling underscores the evolving perceptions of emotional vulnerability across generations.
Creativity often becomes a bridge to healing, and Jason's coloring book project, Letters To Zachary and Website stands as a beautiful tribute to lives lost. This initiative not only memorializes loved ones but also fosters a community of support and expression.
As we celebrate joining the Mayday Media Network, the Kindness Matters podcast continues to champion stories of kindness and resilience, urging our listeners to cultivate empathy and understanding in their daily lives. Join us in spreading kindness and uplifting others, one story at a time.
This podcast is a proud member of the Mayday Media Network. If you have an idea for a podcast and need some production assistance or have a podcast and are looking for a supportive network to join, check out maydaymedianetwork.com.
Like what you hear on the podcast? Follow our social media for more uplifting, inspirational and feel-good content.
Did you find this episode uplifting, inspiring or motivating? Would you like to support more content like this? Check out our Support The Show Page here.
Well, hello there and welcome. You are listening to the Kindness Matters podcast and I am your host, mike Rathbun. What is this podcast all about? It's about kindness. It's a pushback against everything negative that we see in the news and on social media today, and it's a way to highlight people, organizations, that are simply striving to make their little corner of the world a little better place.
Speaker 1:If you want to join in on the conversation, feel free, Go ahead and follow us on all of your social media feeds. We're on Facebook, instagram, tiktok. We're even on LinkedIn under Mike Rathbun. Check us out. We're even on LinkedIn under Mike Rathbun. Check us out. And, in the meantime, so sit back, relax, enjoy and we'll get into the Kindness Matters podcast. Hey, welcome everybody to the Kindness Matters podcast. I have a really cool, cool guest today. He is a father and went through something that no father should ever have to go through and we'll get into that in a minute but he's come out on the other side, I think, stronger, and he wants to help others with that journey as well. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2:Jason Tuttle. Well, thank you for having me. I appreciate being on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's. I mean, this is such a great program you've developed, but it's too bad. You had to develop it right.
Speaker 2:It is. But you know the topic which we'll get into for the program that I did create. You know, in the beginning, honestly, in just my adjustment to the life that I now lead, I used to get frustrated and upset with just with people's misunderstanding. But the longer I went through this kind of journey I thought, well, who really? People don't really have to deal with this topic until they're forced to deal with it. Right, and it's not necessarily their fault because they don't necessarily understand it. Because why would you want to deal with it if you didn't have to?
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, for sure, and we might say some things that are perceived by you as insensitive, but we just don't know any better because we don't know the things that you're going through. Right, Correct.
Speaker 2:And so, for your listeners, I lost my 15 yearold special needs son January of 2022. He, as well as his sister, was born with a lot of chronic medical special needs. Excuse me, In fact, my son was born with a rare condition that was considered chronic. It wasn't, by any stretch of the mean, any stretch of the imagination, considered terminal. Now, there were phases of his condition, meaning, like the first third of children that got it didn't make it out of birth, and then the next, about third, didn't make it to like age three or four, and then there was everybody else that made it past that, and it was just what was the quality of life after that point, and that was kind of the category of my son was in. So when he did pass, it was honestly nothing related to any of his special needs.
Speaker 2:Oh wow, you know, as a father who, at least in the beginning, we had our son, which had a lot of medical needs, and then later on down the road we found that his daughter had similar needs. You know, you get into learning. Well, what's the medical side of it? What are the physical things that I need to do to help their quality of life? And so, when my son passed the symptoms that I was so used to seeing with his other issues. It was nothing related to it, so it really that was a lot of the hardship in the beginning. Outside of actually losing my son was the fact that I never saw it coming.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's a certain amount of guilt, I would imagine. You know why didn't I see? Why didn't I do something? How could I have helped? And yeah, I can. How could I have helped? And yeah, I can I. I get that, um, and you were a stay-at-home dad for 12 years, right?
Speaker 2:uh, you were with the kids a whole time uh, I was, uh, our son was born, and what my degree fields? Education. I taught elementary school physical education for nine years, um, and then, the first year he was born, I actually had one of the parents at my school who was a mother of like six that said that she would watch him because she literally lived in the neighborhood right next to the school, oh, wow. And so she was a stay at home mom and, and you know, outside of the medical stuff at that point, the medical stuff, yes, it was there, but it wasn't to the severity that it would get at one point, right. And so she did a great job watching them.
Speaker 2:And I want to say I worked the next year and then the last school that I was at, because I had transferred schools in between there, that last year I was in and out of the hospital so much that, like I'd burned through all my sick time, my PTO short term, and so I called my wife from my office one day and said, well, what are your thoughts about me being a stay at home parent? And you know we had that kind of talk Everybody does is well, if we're waiting to be ready for stay-at-home parent, and we had that kind of talk everybody does is well, if we're waiting to be ready for it, we'll never be ready for it. We just got to rip the Band-Aid off, yep, and that was a Wednesday of that week. By Friday, my resignation was on my principal's desk and I was literally driving out of the school going adios, I have to go this direction.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah on adios I've got, I have to go this direction, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean that makes sense and I mean, and yeah, we all do it right as parents, we're like well, but it's like having kids right, if you wait until you can afford it, you'll never have well, I and I, and I will say that first month that I didn't, that I didn't get a salary, you know I I had a little bit of a panic attack, but once I kind of got in the flow of things and was able to finagle things around, it got better. But that first month I almost had a panic attack.
Speaker 1:Well, sure, and I think that's perfectly natural. Now, your son's name was zachary, correct, is zachary? Yes sorry, um, and so, in the aftermath, that was three years ago. Well, almost three years ago, almost, um. Talk a little bit about, if you, if you find it comfortable to, about the things that you dealt with, that you went through, because you're grieving, right. Yes, go ahead.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:So I realized, actually after my son had actually passed, that there have been actually two distinct points of grieving in just our family's life Meaning. When he was born, it was more grieving the life we thought we were going to have versus the life that we were given. You know, I taught physical education. I love sports. I, you know, I would you know, if my son wanted to do that, I was going to be the one to help him through whatever sport he wanted to go through because of his mental disabilities and not being able to walk and all of his other issues that that got thrown to the wayside.
Speaker 2:And then, you know, I'm, as you'll probably learn in this podcast I can run my mouth and I can talk a lot, and my son was nonverbal, and so those were two huge things In fact for the longest time. And my son said mom once but never said dad his entire life, and so I I will say that right after pat that was kind of one of the gut punches and you know he showed it in his own way and all and I. I later realized that, but at least in the beginning, that that was a hard pill to swallow, sure, uh. So, um, um, I lost much.
Speaker 1:I thought, that's fine um, yeah, because I imagine when you knew, did you guys know, you guys you were going to have a boy before? Did you do the ultrasound and we did.
Speaker 2:but but the way that came about was I'm even though I wasn't born in the south, I'm basically southern because I've lived here 99 of my life uh, my wife was born up, uh, in the massachusetts, connecticut kind of region, oh wow, and she was a cradle catholic and she, like, when we first met, when we decided that we were getting serious and we were going to get married, she was just like well, I want to have four kids and I.
Speaker 1:I looked at her.
Speaker 2:Well, I looked at her and I said, well, let's have the first one and we'll go from there. For sure, not knowing that you know any, any of this was going to come about. Sure, any of this was going to come about, sure. So we had no reason to believe that our son, or even our daughter, was going to have any medical issues. Everything was fine all the way up until that week 20 appointment, which is where you find out the sex of the child. For those that don't know, we had no reason to believe there were any issues.
Speaker 2:So we get into that appointment, the ultrasound tech kind of starts doing her job and we're playfully going back and forth. She didn't want to know, because you know, that's one of life's last great mysteries. And I did want to. I did want to know cause I was planning, I was putting the nursery together, I was, you know, there were a lot of things that I. I kind of wanted to know the sex of the child so that I could plan appropriately, sure, and.
Speaker 2:But she didn't want to know. And I mean, ultimately, that's the direction we went. And so the ultrasound tech gets to that point and she goes do you want to know the sex of your child. And so we're we're kind of playfully going well, maybe, back and forth, and before we can stop she goes well, I've found an issue and I need to know the sex of the child. And so at that point we go, okay, what's the sex of our child? And they said, well, you're having a boy. And we go, well, can you tell us what the issue is? And she said, well, that's a doctor-related message.
Speaker 2:And, honestly, I understood it because it's a legal thing and that kind of thing.
Speaker 1:It's frustrating, but I understand it.
Speaker 2:And I said well, okay, if you can't tell me the issue, why did you need to know boy or girl? And she said well, if it's what I think it is, it's rare in boys, but even rarer in girls. Oh wow. And from that point forward we started seeing a perinatologist, which is basically a high-risk OBGYN, and we saw him from week 20 all the way until she gave birth at 38 weeks, and it was, in that time period, kind of a proverbial snowball started snowballing down the hill.
Speaker 1:Wow, yeah, and so was it the same with your daughter. You found out at that 20 week point. No, no, was it the same? It wasn't the same issue, was it my son?
Speaker 2:and daughter were born were born two years apart, almost to the day. They had identical issues, except for my son's rare condition. Okay, they both had severe neurological delays, they were both epileptic, they were both nonverbal, they were both basically in wheelchairs. It was just that my son had the rare condition on top of it.
Speaker 1:Okay, Okay, Because I was going to say you said it was rarer in girls and I was like what are the odds she had the same issue.
Speaker 2:It wasn't the same issue.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, no, okay so this horrible event happens and you are grieving now as men. Grieving tends to look a lot different for men than women. Can you walk me through some of that?
Speaker 2:Well, in the beginning I had kind of your typical male response. There was a lot of anger in the beginning and it wasn't directed at anybody, it was more of an internal kind of in myself kind of thing. One, because when I one of the reasons why I stayed at home was because I did all of the physical medical care. Like I like all the respiratory machines that we had in my son's room, which is what I'm sitting in, it was up against the wall and like anytime you would get that certain cough. It was up against the wall and like anytime you would get that certain cough. I had like five respiratory machines. I went in a specific order that I went through to try to be able to get the crud out and to be able to hopefully catch it before it went too far. And like I did all the lifting, I did all the feeding I did.
Speaker 2:You know, lord forbid, if you ever had a seizure. I was the one that dealt with it. Forbid, if you ever had a seizure. I was the one that dealt with it. So you know, there were numerous times that when I took him to the hospital for respiratory related illnesses, like there, there was one time that the doctor literally said I don't know how you did it. I said did what? And he goes. Last night we took an x-ray of your son's lung and he said there was just a little bit of congestion down at the bottom. He said we took one overnight and he said it has exploded. And he said what that tells me is that x-ray last night you caught the pneumonia forming in its infancy and you got him here at the exact right moment.
Speaker 1:Holy cow, he was just like.
Speaker 2:I don't know how you did it. And I said you know? I said there's a certain sound he makes when he coughs. And I said, when I heard it you know, like I have a stethoscope here I said so I listened to his chest and I started kind of doing my protocol and then I went you know what, something's not right, I'm bringing him up. Yeah, something's not right, I'm bringing them up, yeah, and so I did, and I mean we got admitted and I think we were there like 10 days or something like that.
Speaker 2:But so as the, as the caregiver, I was always the one that he got sick. I made him better, right, and even the morning of that I took him to the hospital, the day that he actually passed up. Until about halfway through we were in the of the process before he got pronounced I still thought there was a chance. Now I will say at one moment, cause I was in the ER room when they were working on him I watched from start to finish. I literally watched him take his last breath. And so at one point they get in there and they put the paddles on them you know, which nowadays are not the old plastic paddles where they put the gel on kind of thing.
Speaker 2:right, they put the pads on right, yeah, yeah, and I mean it literally looks like an xbox console is what it looks like. And so I hear him yell clear and like he just like medical dramas. He literally lifted off the table and he laid back down and so I didn't look at that. I looked at this, the monitor, with like the heart rate on it, the pulse, because with all of his respiratory I was so used to looking at that and it literally went boop and goes right back to what it's doing Now in my head I'm going, he's not coming back, and so I don't really react to that, cause I'm in the moment and I'm having to compartmentalize and so. But I at about they worked on him for probably 45 continuous minutes, so probably at about 25 or 30, I knew it just didn't register because they continued cpr and they probably shocked him four more times to try to bring him back to life. Oh, wow, and so.
Speaker 2:But to get back to answering your question, um, yeah, you know I dealt with a lot of anger. I've never been one for like, why me? But in that moment when I finally got away from the hospital, I had a moment to think. I started saying that because as someone who's as someone who's religious and is pretty strong in their faith, my thought process was I 100% believe that the powers that be gave me this child because they knew of the ability that I had to take care of them. And so a lot of my questions in the beginning were you gave me this child to be able to do all this for to help him and save him? And in the one moment that I needed to do all this for to help him and save him, and in the one moment that I needed to do it most, I couldn't, and so that was a very hard pill to swallow for a long while yeah, yeah, I totally, I get that.
Speaker 1:I understand that. Um, you know why? Why? Why me, why my son, what did that serve? But yeah, I, I totally get it. Um, and now so they talk about five stages of grief. Did you go through all of them?
Speaker 2:It's funny you say that because in the grief community, we all have our very unique take on the five stages of grief. What you learn very quickly when you go through grief, especially a parent losing a child and I know it's in all other areas, and I'll say this with a grain of salt. I am not saying that losing a child is more depressing than saying losing a wife or a mother or a father. However, what I will say to people is it's a lot different. It's I don't say it's better or worse, but it just hits you differently. And so you learn very quickly that, yes, you have the five stages of grief and in the beginning you think, well, I'm going to go from one to two, two to three, three to four, four to five. It's all real linear. Yeah, it's all real linear.
Speaker 2:Two to three, three to four, four to five, it's all real linear. Yeah, it's all real linear. But what you learn very quickly is it's all very liquid and it's fluid and it's well, I could be one to four to five, to three, to two, to five, to four, to one, and that could just be one moment of one day, right. And so you learn that really quickly. Uh, I will say that I was probably in the anger and sadness stage for a very long time which, again, like I said, it was more internal, it wasn't directed at anybody and even between my wife and I we agreed vastly differently.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah and okay. And getting back to the whole the men thing yeah, yeah and okay.
Speaker 2:And getting back to the whole the men thing yes, because there's a, there's a stigma, I think, about men grieving Is there not there is, and the stigma is that the moment a man shows vulnerability, it implies that he is weak, and that's not the case at all. Right, and you know, a lot of it has to. The longer I've been on this journey, the more I think it's almost becoming a generational thing, in the sense of you know, my father was born in 1944. And so you had, which is the older generation than me, and you had the. They didn't really express emotion, and if they did, it was hidden off somewhere and people, people didn't talk about it.
Speaker 2:Right and then you have me, who comes in behind him, which I'm generation X and even still with us were, rub some dirt on it, tape it up and walk it off. You know, boys don't cry, are you hurt or are you injured, kind of mentality, right, that kind of thing. And so it's getting a little more, and even today it's a lot more than what, say, my generation is, but it's still just because of kind of the societal pressures that are on men, that are not on women.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I know my dad was greatest generation. He was born in 27. And I would not even need one hand to count the number of times I saw him cry at all, even when his mom died, and I think I carried that with me because I never cried when he died.
Speaker 1:I never cried when my mom died. You're right. There's just a lot of pressure on men to always be in control of our emotions. Yes, maybe, and that's kind of where this cool little thing that you developed comes in Letters to Zachary. Yes, talk about that for me, please.
Speaker 2:So I'm a big proponent of therapy. I always have been. I I believe that as just humans, we go through seasons of needing it and seasons of not needing it. And the irony of everything is about two weeks, unbeknownst to me, before my son passed, I literally I called my therapist, said you know, I don't think I have enough for an hour, you know, an hour session. I think I've kind of worked through what I needed to work through and I said I'm going to start. I said, but you know, I'll call you back up. And I know you got a waiting list kind of thing. And I said I'll call you back if it should something pop up. She goes, okay, fine, and she got it. And then my son passed away.
Speaker 2:A couple of days afterwards I call her up and I go I need an emergency session. You will understand when I talk to you if you've got any time that you can open up. And luckily she was able to open some time up for me and I got in there and told her what was going on and at that point I started seeing her again once a week and about the fifth or sixth week afterwards, you know. So I get in there and she goes you know, how are you doing, what are you doing to try to alleviate some of the emotion? And I told her what kind of what I was doing and she goes have you ever thought about journaling? I was doing.
Speaker 2:And she goes have you ever thought about journaling? And I said you know, I've thought about it. I said but I don't know how well I am as a writer, I don't know if that's kind of my thing. And so she goes well, you don't have to do it now. She said it's more of a like a mindfulness activity, it's more to get it off your chest. She was just like, let's say, you write it out and you hold the letters. You don't have to share it with anybody. She said you can throw it in the fire and burn it if that's what you wanted to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, style and spelling and punctuation don't really matter when you're journaling.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I said, okay, she goes, we'll keep it on the back burner. She said you can come to it at any point. And I said okay, and that figuratively sat on my side table for months afterwards because I fought it, I resisted it, I didn't really want to do it. And one day I got on Facebook and you know I watch videos and reels on Facebook and I pulled up this. Just a random reel popped up and it was.
Speaker 2:There was it wasn't something like of my son, but it was a context that was relating to my son that I had just dealt with.
Speaker 2:It was either a medical scene or something that he liked or something to that effect.
Speaker 2:And when I saw it, man, it hit me like a Mack truck, like I just started bawling like uncontrollably because it, because it was still so raw and new, and it was at that point I opened up my laptop, I got into a word document and you know formal English style, you know name, address, like writing my son, and I just kind of verbally vomited on the page and like to the point that if I felt like I needed to write an F-bomb in there because that's what I was feeling, that's what I wrote, and I did that several times a day for weeks and something in my brain said just save them on your computer, we can come back to them.
Speaker 2:And initially what I got into wasn't what I was thinking I was going to get into, oh really. So I'd written for a couple of weeks and I got on Facebook and, as we all know, there's a group for everything on Facebook. Yes, there is, and I just happened to find a parents who lost a special needs child group, which I was shocked to find, because that's a very refined or finite niche of grief.
Speaker 2:I was gonna say talk about niche and so I got in there and I got I'm to this day I'm still friends with the admin and I got to talking to her. And so one day I said do you mind if I post one of my journal entries? And she said we would love for you to do. She said we rarely, if ever, get any men in here posting about how they feel. And I said OK, and right before I posted it in my head I went even though this is noble or this is something that people could use, as much as I want it all to be positive, I have to prep myself that I might get negative. And am I in the head space to be able to accept negative criticism when I'm less than a year from my son passing? And so I thought about it for a few minutes and then, in my fashion, I just went screw it, I'm going to do it anyway. And I posted it. Well, I waited about. You know, I didn't think anything about it. About 10 minutes later I got this massive like positive response oh wow, a lot of wives and mothers and girlfriends. And like when I, when I posted in there, I put a disclaimer and I said I'm not sugarcoating anything, I will not sugarcoat anything. I believe that people need to see grief in its grittiest, rawest form, I said, which is different than what we see on TV. And I said so, if you're someone that, if this is going to trigger you because you're close to the passing of your loved one, scroll on. I said because I'm not changing it, this is how I feel, this is what people need to see.
Speaker 2:And so I did it that way and I had several like. I had one woman message me and she goes you know, we've never met each other, we don't know each other, we've never talked. And she said I've never told anybody exactly how I feel, kind of in the core. And she said you have hit the nail on the head, word for word, in this document that you posted. And I said I really appreciate that. I said that means a lot.
Speaker 2:I said I wasn't sure the response I was going to get and I said this is inspired by my son that I lost. And I said I'm just not, I'm not going to sugarcoat for I said people can't handle it. That's fine, but that's not going to change how I feel, right. And so I continued and every time I posted I was getting these kinds of responses. And so finally, after a couple of weeks, you know, I started getting the people going well, have you thought about writing a book? Have you thought about doing a podcast?
Speaker 2:And at that point in time I came back and said I just don't know if I'm in the headspace for it. I might down the road, but not right now. And so finally I forget who it was, I think it was someone I'm connected with still said well, have you thought about doing like a Facebook page? Because at least at that point you could just copy and paste and not necessarily create new. You're just sharing what you've already done. And I literally went well, I can do that. And so I did that.
Speaker 2:And I got your typical response in the beginning. And just, I did that for a week or two and I got this wild hair in my brain. I went well, I'm gonna start reaching out to some of the big names in the grief community and just say hey, I'm so-and-so, I've created this page. Can I just get pointers Like what worked well for you, what didn't? And literally all of them came back, said sure, we'd love to.
Speaker 2:And a lot of them were just like well, if you're going to do a podcast, you're going to want to do A, b and C. If you're going to write a book, you're going to want to do D, e and F, and this is what worked well for me. This I had to kind of steer away from is kind of the responses I got, and so after doing that, literally probably a week after implementing all those changes, I started like 20 and 30 followers a day. I was starting to get them and, as we talked before, we started recording, this month will be a year. At this point, I'm almost at 1200 followers. I have people that follow the page in 26 countries and just about every state in the US, and so to, to the big pages.
Speaker 2:It may not mean a lot, but to me hey, I don't have 1200 and I don't have 1200 followers on any social media platform I have, so you're a big deal to me well, you know, and I I tell people, I I was just like if you would have told me a year ago that I'd be doing this and doing your podcast and that kind of thing, I'd have looked at it and said you've lost your mind.
Speaker 1:Fair, but it's such a great space or spot there on Facebook where men can feel vulnerable enough to share their emotion right, exactly, and that is something I think that's needed I talk a lot about on this podcast about we don't talk about mental health, but we also don't talk about especially men don't talk about mental health, but we also don't talk about especially men don't talk about grief, because every single one of us goes through it at some point in our life. Um, and we we shut it up, we put it in the closet and we stowed away and and that that it can't be very healthy for your mental health.
Speaker 2:No, and I didn't see it at the time, but my wife certainly said, at least in the beginnings, that there were a lot of ups and downs in the beginning, a lot of pretty vast swings of the pendulum, if you will, although she did say a couple of months ago she goes. You may not see it, but just all the stuff you've done for Letters to Zachary on Facebook and the website and you know I just got published and she's just like it's made a huge difference, whether you see it or not.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and I did. I do believe, honestly, that. Letters to zachary facebook page um, and now your coloring book, yes, which is awesome that came out in august.
Speaker 2:Yes, it did, in fact. It's right there there he is.
Speaker 2:Look at that smile um, so that that honestly was kind of a chance meeting, um, just kind of like you and I met one of the podcasting groups on facebook. There was a, a publisher based out of boston that was in, uh, one of the bigger groups I'm in, and she was advertising about being on her podcast. And then she's I think she was just starting and she said, you know, for the first couple, they do my podcast. Yeah, I said I'd love to do your podcast if I'm someone, a topic you want to talk about. And I said I could certainly use the press release kind of thing.
Speaker 2:And so she comes back and she's real nice and she said, well, we can do that. But she said I think I can do more than just that. And so we're going back and forth and she goes well, have you ever thought about writing a book? And I said I have. I said I'll be blunt, honest. I said I know there's a good bit of cost in writing a book. And I said I just don't have those kind of funds at this point. Yeah, and so we get to talking and she goes have you ever thought about doing like a coloring book?
Speaker 2:And I went well, that's a unique idea Because I mean I've always been a little right of center anyways in life and I was just, and I was, and I kind of like things that are kind of outside of the norm, sure, and so I went well, that's a little bit outside the norm, I said. I said I like the idea and so we get to talk and then she kind of explains the process of it and so basically what happens is is she creates a website, uh, connected to her publishing website, and we get in there and I've gotten into the grief community and literally now there are several that are. That are my entries. But to to one of the reasons why I did that was I wanted to give back with this, and what I mean by that was I told people. I said look, I said I'm coming up with a coloring book. I said go to this website. I said there's a survey on there. I said what I'm going to ask you is who your loved one is. That passed away kind of what their age was, way kind of what their age was, some positive attributes about it, maybe, favorite quotes, favorite sayings, things they liked, all that kind of stuff. And I said what's going to happen is the publishers and the illustrators are going to take all of that information, compile it together and make a full coloring book page based on the information that you submit. And I said now understand something, this is free, I'm not charging you anything for this. I said because I'm doing this, because I want to create a legacy for my son and I wanted something tangible that was in my hands. And I said a good portion of this will be of my son, because this was kind of my idea.
Speaker 2:I said but because so many of you have helped me to get me started, I wanted to give something back. So literally every entry in this book is a person that I have come across, either personally or through the grief community that we've created, that has lost a loved one, that is now a active and interactive memorial. The, this handheld that I've told people, I've said this is now on kind of life's bookshelf that will outlast us all, yep. And so let me get to one of them. Like, for example, here's one of the pages of someone page and then it kind of gives an attribute about them and who it was at the bottom and where they're from, that kind of thing, and let's see if I can. Let me get a little bit better. This one's a little bit more traditional coloring book page.
Speaker 2:Kid's name was Tanner, and so that was the biggest reason why I wanted to do it. Plus, at that point I had so many people that were like either podcast or foundations or things, because there's several of them in here that on the back of their page it lists their website, their foundation, their podcast, and so, like those people that were doing that, I said the only cost to you is purchasing the book. And I said the book costs $14.99. I said where can you advertise for $14.99? Nowhere. And I said so the way you're going to get more advertising. I said if I promote it and you promote it and everybody else in here promotes it, that's going to get a ton of advertising in several different parts of the country. So that was kind of the brainchild that happened for that book.
Speaker 1:For sure. Wow, I wish, as a podcaster, I could give you something similar to what you got from that other one, because I honestly believe that you are doing such a kindness by creating all of this honoring Zachary and letting people, but specifically men, know that it's okay to grieve and that they're going to be okay.
Speaker 2:Certainly, and a long time ago, well before my son passed away, I got into a phase where it seemed like I was complaining about a lot of things and just one day, out of the blue, I kind of went instead of complaining about it, do something about it. Sure, for a brief moment it gets it off your chest, that kind of thing. But sitting there just complaining and not doing anything about it, you're just as bad as whoever you think is doing the other end of it. Right, and so that was. You know, like I tell people all the time am I perfect at this? No, do I make mistakes? Yes, I make them every day doing this.
Speaker 2:Have there been times in this process, even like when I've made comments back to people commenting on my posts? I've stuck my foot in my mouth several times? Is I'm very transparent, I don't hide anything? Now I might say something that might stick my foot in my mouth, but you know that I'm going to be honest about it, even if I do it. And so the idea behind it was men typically men want to see someone else do it before they do it. So if I can be that example good or bad, at least they can see someone doing it that you know, to be bluntly honest, that doesn't really care what the world thinks about me doing it. You know, I've said several times, if this page only helps one or two people, then it was worth doing it, sure I mean it's great that it's got almost 1200 followers and people that regularly comment and things like that, and I'm thrilled about that.
Speaker 2:but you know I'm here to whatever example I am is to set that example.
Speaker 1:Yep for sure. Well, Jason, I really I so appreciate you being able to come on the show today and I wish you all the luck in the world. And thank you for Letters to Zachary Sure. It means the world to a lot of people I know.
Speaker 2:Sure, for those who are listening that want to learn more, you can go to LettersToZacharycom. Thank you. On that page, on the top, you can click to either get my face Well, there's a Facebook page. There's a Facebook group of the same name. If you're intrigued about the coloring book, it's the third section down. There's a button on there that'll take you directly to Amazon where it's for sale for those that are interested in it. I've got that on there. I've got pictures of my son. I've got video of him. I've got several different media appearances that I've been on, whether it's been podcast or internet TV, that kind of thing.
Speaker 2:And then at the bottom, I've got all my social media links, because I'm on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok and I've also got my LinkedIn on there.
Speaker 1:Nice, nice. And we'll have all those links in the show notes too. So, if you're listening, go to the show notes. You're going to find everything you need to get in touch with Jason and letters to Zachary. Thanks again, jason. I appreciate the time you spent with me today.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for having me. What an amazing episode there. What a great conversation with Jason Tuttle. With Jason Tuttle, I hope in my heart of hearts that none of my listeners, none of you, have to go through what Jason went through. But if you did and you're looking for especially for the men out there, if you're looking for a way of expressing your grief, because it's so important to let go of that and get it out, please take a look at Jason's website and his Facebook page and everything else, and I hope it gives you some inspiration, courage, whatever you might need to overcome that grief in your life.
Speaker 1:I can't love this episode more. I'm sorry that it had to be done. I'm sorry that he had to come up with letters to Zachary, but I think we're all better for it. On a happier note, I'm proud to announce that the Kindness Matters podcast is now a part of the Mayday Media Network. These folks, if you are thinking about starting a podcast, or if you've started a podcast and you need some help, or you want to be a part of a great network that has so much diversity around it, I mean, you're not going to find two of the same kind of podcasts on this network and check them out, maydaymedianetworkcom. And that will do it for this week for the Kindness Matters podcast. We will be back again next week with another episode, but in the meantime, be that person who roots for others, who tells a stranger that they look amazing and encourages others to believe in themselves and their dreams. You've been listening to the Kindness Matters Podcast and I am your host, mike Rathbun. Have a fantastic week.
