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The Kindness Matters Podcast
So. Much. Division. Let's talk about how to change that. Re-engage as neighbors, friends, co-workers and family. Let's set out to change the world. Strike that. Change A World. One person at a time, make someone's life a little better and then do it again tomorrow and the day after that, through kindness.
Kindness is a Super-Power that each of us has within us. It is so powerful it has the potential to change not only your life but those around you, too. Let's talk about kindness.
The Kindness Matters Podcast
Empathy's Role in Business Success with Dr. Melissa Robinson-Weinmiller
What if empathy could be the secret ingredient to skyrocketing your business's success? Our latest episode of the Kindness Matters Podcast features the incredible Dr. Melissa Robinson-Winemiller, an authority on emotional intelligence (EQ) and empathy. With a storytelling flair, Melissa recounts her transformative journey from academia to becoming a leading consultant in leadership and change management. Her rich background in music and academia, combined with her steadfast advocacy for EQ, offers listeners unique insights into how empathy can significantly boost productivity, innovation, and profitability in any organization.
Melissa shares some hard-hitting truths about the toxic environments she faced in the academic world and how these experiences fueled her passion for promoting empathy in the workplace. Through compelling narratives and relatable examples, we explore how empathy can serve as the bedrock for effective communication, teamwork, and self-discipline. Melissa's expertise is backed by concrete statistics and endorsements from top companies, making a powerful case for why emotional intelligence is not just a soft skill but a business imperative.
As we navigate through the complexities of modern work life, we also tackle pressing issues like workplace incivility, societal stressors, and the challenges faced by middle management. Melissa provides valuable insights into how empathy can bridge personal differences and offers practical advice for fostering a kinder corporate culture. We wrap up with a heartfelt discussion on the importance of staying connected, supporting others, and nurturing self-belief. Don’t miss out on Melissa’s upcoming book for even more profound insights into the transformative power of empathy and kindness.
You can learn more about Melissa and get information about her new book by going to her website.
The Kindness Matters Podcast is part of the DEN-The Deluxe Edition Network. Check them out to find your next favorite podcast.
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Do you like good coffee? Are you like me and go to bed in anticipation of a great cup of coffee in the morning (and afternoon, maybe). Then let me introduce you to my newest sponsor, Coffee Bros. They have built their business on the cornerstones of sustainability, quality, consistency, and freshness. From coffee to brewing techniques to coffee and espresso machines, they should be your go-to for all things coffee. And if you order from them, use the code Kind10 to get a 10% discount on your order.
Did you find this episode uplifting, inspiring or motivating? Would you like to support more content like this? Check out our Support The Show Page here.
This podcast is part of the Deluxe Edition Network. To find other great shows on the network, head over to DeluxeEditionNetworkcom. That's DeluxeEditionNetworkcom.
Speaker 2:Kindness. We see it all around us. We see it when someone pays for someone else's coffee or holds the door open for another person. We see it in the smallest of gestures, like a smile or a kind word. But it's different when we turn on the news or social media. Oftentimes what we hear about what outlets are pushing is the opposite of kind.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Kindness Matters Podcast. Our goal is to give you a place to relax, to revel in stories of people who have received or given kindness, a place to inspire and motivate each and every one of us to practice kindness every day. Welcome, welcome, welcome, my friends, you are listening to the Kindness Matters podcast and I am your host, mike Rathbun. As you may have noticed at the beginning of the show, we are a podcast on the Deluxe Edition Network, a network full of amazing podcasts, and one of those podcasts is their podcast of the month. It's called Berks County Unsolved and it's a podcast from Casey Shearer of the Deluxe Edition with Casey and Ray and Mike D from Take On the World, and it is focused on unsolved murders in Berks County, pennsylvania and its surrounding areas. If you are a fan of true crime podcasts, you will not want to miss this one. Also, make sure to check out the show notes, where you'll find links and discount codes for two companies I partnered with Sunday Scaries, a company that makes broad-spectrum CBD gummies, and Coffee Bros that makes an amazing blend of coffees and coffee products. I use both of these products and they are nothing short of amazing.
Speaker 2:Now let's get into the show. Hello and and welcome everybody. I am so excited for the show today. My guest today is so incredibly energetic and she just gets you amped up to go. Let me tell you a little bit about her. After losing her career as a professor to a brutally unempathetic leadership, my guest today reinvented herself as an expert in empathy and EQ and has never looked back. Not only does she have 30 plus years of leadership experience in profit, nonprofit and academic settings, but also a doctorate in interdisciplinary leadership and experience, consulting and change management, data analytics and the psychology of leadership analytics and the psychology of leadership. Add to this decades as an author, a coach, a public speaker, and she has created the perfect blend to guide both current and emerging leaders in navigating these murky waters to increase productivity, innovation and profit. So happy to have Dr Melissa Robinson-Weinmiller on the show with me today.
Speaker 3:Yay, thank you so much for having me, mike. I'm so excited to be here.
Speaker 2:I thought I was gonna. I got a little too cocky after I did interdisciplinary and rolled that right off of my tongue and then I almost messed up the rest of it, but I think we got through it okay. Oh yeah, how are you, dr Weinmiller, today?
Speaker 3:I'm fantastic. It's, the weather is nice and the sun is out and I'm just happy to be here. Please call me Melissa, that's totally fine.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, you know, and I think it's mostly medical doctors who get upset if you forget the doctor part of their name, isn't it?
Speaker 3:Well, I know some academics that get kind of out of joint about it too. But the way I look at it, it's what I do. It's not who I am, so I'm totally fine with being first.
Speaker 2:I love that. So now you were a professor, is that correct?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:What were you doing? What were you teaching?
Speaker 3:I was a musician, so specifically my professorship was in French horn. But as usual musicians, we have to do a lot of different things. So I conducted, I taught theory, I taught some history throughout the years. I also can play some piano, so I did some accompanying. I've done some singing. Oh wow, A little bit of everything.
Speaker 2:I love the French horn, and I don't know why, except that it figures very heavily, I think, in the Star Wars soundtrack. Do, do, do, do, do. I think that's a French horn that I'm hearing in there, and it's absolutely beautiful. It is and that kind of makes me a French horn nerd.
Speaker 3:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Maybe Not just because of the Star Wars reference. Just a nerd in general, right, so okay, so and conducting. I love that you conducted.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:This is my idea of conducting and I don't think it has anything to do with real conducting. So what happened? Why did you? I don't know. Did you choose to walk away because of the unempathetic leadership?
Speaker 3:I did not, and it was something I was more than happy picturing myself doing for the rest of my life. In fact, that's what you know I was. I loved being a musician. I loved the music, I loved the people, I loved being engaged in that way all the time. I kind of left it when I was beaten enough that I just couldn't take it anymore.
Speaker 3:What happened in a nutshell was you know, I've been a gigging musician for a long time, for decades. But you know, I'm kind of hopelessly addicted to food, shelter and clothing food, shelter and clothing. So I needed to find a job that would give benefits. So I went back, got my first doctorate and got a professorship and within my very first term of being there I was assaulted by one of my colleagues, by another professor, and as I tried to go through the system and work through what had happened, I mean, our boss told me that as a junior female faculty member, if I was stirring up trouble that early that I was just never going to get tenure. His boss told me that if I didn't like it I should just leave.
Speaker 3:And the farther I went and the more places on campus I tried to go and the more people I tried to talk to, the more I was just hit with this uncaring kind of sorry about your luck. And the thing that confused me the worst was that the initial person and some of the initial people aside, the other people I tried to talk to were not bad people. They were evil. They weren't. They were just trying to get through in a system that had pushed him into behaving this way. So after seven years of banging my head against that wall, I had to leave music altogether, which was, you know, in a lot of ways it was kind of like a death and I just had to figure it out.
Speaker 3:You know, being a musician was so intertwined in who I was it was really hard to get away from it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it's like cutting off a hand, right. I mean that's what do you do now? And not only was it unempathetic, but a lot of it was really misogynistic. It sounds like.
Speaker 3:Very much. Wow I found out at this point in time that the person who had done this to begin with, and maybe one of the other actors as well, were a card-carrying psychopath or narcissist. Oh, oh by definition for the kind that's diagnosable. I wouldn't be surprised. I can't say they were, but it wouldn't surprise me. Yeah, yeah, but it wouldn't surprise me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, but I mean the fact that you got out of that and as horrible as that was for you, really we're all better for it, because now we have you to talk to us and teach us a better way. Because a lot of times, I think, when we think about empathy and EQ and you put those words together with business, it seems like they don't really fit.
Speaker 3:But you're saying it really should or does, yeah, and that there's a lot to be gained from it in the bottom line, in profit, in productivity, and this isn't just something that I think this was. I have some really hard statistics and even big companies like ernst and young you know big four global consultancies coming out saying by adding empathy you're going to increase profit, you're going to increase innovation. So it's not just me. There's kind of been a push and a movement for this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure. Um, so I'm trying to think. So you, you, you stepped away from music and you said I'm going to throw myself into academics and I'm sorry, I've got like a squirrel brain. Talk to me about EQ, that that stands for emotional quotient. Is that correct?
Speaker 3:yeah, emotional intelligence, it's all kind of the same so okay yeah, if you want to get into the academic literature, the the beans and rice of it is that it means I can understand and control what I'm feeling and I can understand what other people are feeling. And the best way that I can explain this is it's like thinking of a big tool bag and it has all these different skills in there and, just like anything, people are naturally good at some of them more than others. But there's communication, there's self-discipline, there's teamwork, there's motivation of yourself and others, and all of this is in this tool bag and you've got hammers and chisels and wrenches and saws and whatever else in there. Well, I think that's where empathy comes in, because in the past, they've lumped empathy into that tool bag, and what I'm saying is you actually need it first so that you've connected to people and when you reach into this tool bag, you know that you're reaching for a hammer and not a table saw.
Speaker 2:So perfect. Yes, once you have a grasp on empathy, you know which tool works the best to accomplish what it is that you want to accomplish. Is that correct?
Speaker 3:Right, right, because I actually coined the term emotional intelligence in 1989. So we've been running around with this for 35 years and people still haven't figured out how to apply it to make it actionable.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:And that's where I think empathy comes in, because it's great to have yeah. Use it. It's like having a treadmill right. If you have a treadmill and it sits in the corner of your bedroom was that too close, it makes a perfectly.
Speaker 2:That was a little on the nose. It makes a perfectly fine hanger.
Speaker 3:Well, exactly, you know, maybe the cat sleeps on it and if you're really motivated you dust it once a month, but it just sits there, so you have a treadmill. But if you don't use it, you're not going to get the best outcomes out of it. Right, it's one thing to have it, it's another to use it.
Speaker 4:Yes absolutely.
Speaker 2:You're absolutely correct. So you go back to school, you learn all these things, you get the doctorate. What did you do from there? You're an author, you've written books. You are a life coach. I assume it says coach.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I guess it falls under life coach, I think it all falls under life coach. I mean, this is exactly.
Speaker 2:I think it all falls under life coach, right, Because we all have to it does, because you see all these different niches out there for coaches, right, and I just interviewed a gal who's a book coach. She teaches people how to write their memoirs and it's a healing process. It's a healing tool. And we're back to tools. But yeah, it all falls under the auspices of oh, look at me pulling out 25 cent words of coaching or life coaching. Sure.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, yeah, and I mean it sounds like it was a straight line. It really wasn't. I spun out for quite a while trying to figure out what happens next, but in the end I have a book finished. It's going to come out the end of September, which I'm really excited about. Ooh, yay, there's something we can put in the show notes. That would be fine.
Speaker 2:I would appreciate that.
Speaker 3:If there's a link, link, you bet I can send it to them absolutely, and I mean it is about leadership and empathy, because a lot of you're right, a lot of leaders hear this and like, oh no, that means I've got to be like touchy-feely and stuff, right, no, no, it's a very human thing and it's something that you can use actionably to better not only the business but the people in the business to win-win.
Speaker 2:Okay, Can you give me an example of how a leader might use empathy to increase their bottom line?
Speaker 3:let's say the thing with empathy is that you understand the people that you're working with. It makes you understand who's across the table from you or who your teams are, and that doesn't mean that it's like this touchy, feely, soft puppies and rainbows thing it's. It's not. It's a skill, it's a tool. So you know, what I tell people is that when you, when you actually understand empathy number one, there's two different kinds, or at least the two that I. There's actually originally 42 different kinds 42 kinds of empathy.
Speaker 3:Originally there was 42. They distilled it down to eight and I narrow in on two of them which is affective or emotional empathy, which means I can feel what you're feeling, and the other is cognitive empathy, which means I can feel what you're feeling, and the other is cognitive empathy, which means I logically understand what you're feeling.
Speaker 3:And best if you actually get a combination of the both. But, as a leader, to be able to take that and employ it so that I understand my people, I understand what they need and I understand how to get the best out of them. It's huge. It's huge.
Speaker 2:It's enormous.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean because a lot of times and I think we've all probably had leaders like that right it's like I only know what I need out of you, and if you can't give me that, then hey everybody, we will be right back with more of my conversation with Melissa. Know what I need out of you, and if you can't give me that, then hey everybody, we will be right back with more of my conversation with Melissa. But first here's another great podcast from the Deluxe Edition Network.
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Speaker 1:This podcast is part of the Deluxe Edition Network. To find other great shows on the network, head over to deluxeeditionnetworkcom. That's deluxeeditionnetworkcom.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So when Go ahead? No, you go ahead.
Speaker 3:I'm a member of the Society of Human Resource Management, so I get their newsletter and the big thing that they're on right now is the lack of civility in the workplace. I mean, like every day there's more coming out about this. But if we understood who we were as people and understood other people and I don't mean we have to all of a sudden be living in, you know, nirvana If we increased our empathy by 10%, problems like that I mean I don't think they would ever disappear, but they'd be a lot less.
Speaker 2:It seems like incivility is not limited to boardrooms and break areas, though. No, the incivility that we see just in general these days, and are people bringing it to work, or is it bleeding over from work into personal lives, do you think?
Speaker 3:I think it's probably a little bit of both. Yeah, I think, societally, we're just all on a much shorter leash these days dealing with inflation, dealing with post-COVID, dealing with generational friction, dealing with all of this. And there are people out there writing right now that they feel that there's an uptick in narcissism, specifically, and people being so caught up in themselves that they're not seeing others. I'm not sure I buy it necessarily. I mean, we're in really odd times right now.
Speaker 2:And it probably doesn't help that this is an election year, but we've been seeing it for like the last four years, maybe even eight. I don't know where. People are just downright ugly to each other.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. That's why on Failblog they've got entire threads dedicated to Karens.
Speaker 2:To Karens.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I need to get back into Reddit more.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:But yeah, it's just. What do you think is it that keeps us from seeing another person as a human being and being able to say okay, they don't vote like me, they don't go to church like me, they don't love like me, whatever the case may be, but they are still a human being. They have the same wants and needs as I do.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Is that? I don't know what keeps people from doing that, from seeing that?
Speaker 3:You know, I.
Speaker 2:This is maybe not even in your wheelhouse. I'm sorry if I put you on the spot like that.
Speaker 3:No, not at all, because it actually it is in regards that empathy is what allows us to interact as human beings. If I understand where you're at, you're going to be more likely to understand where I'm at. Suddenly, we are connected on the human being level. It's a lot harder to hate someone when you actually know who they are as a person and understand that this narrow band of how they vote, how they love, how they live, it's just a compression of who they are as a human being, and I really think that's where empathy comes in. I have been reading some literature on this and there's a lot of conjecture that it has to do with social media, with the prevalence of it.
Speaker 2:That's probably not wrong.
Speaker 3:Well, talking about how you know, when you're on social media you're in the spotlight and people get this idea that everybody's watching them, when the reality of it is that we're really not watching anybody else, or at least not that close yeah, exactly but it gives you kind of an inflated sense of being the center of things when you're not, and that this may be part of what's coming out of it.
Speaker 2:Anybody who believes that should take a look at my TikTok numbers, because they're pretty darn tiny. Ooh, I got a like one like. It's just like. This is more like real life folks, so it's just when you so, when you're asked to speak to a group, who is your typical client, a speaking client? Is it a board member, a CEO?
Speaker 3:As far as like public speaking or as far as coaching or public speaking. I do quite a bit for groups like corporate groups. It might include like a board, it might include an executive council, that sort of thing.
Speaker 3:More often than not it's kind of middle management. It's those people that get stuck in the middle because they're the ones that are going through all of the leadership trainings and the you know learning how to lead from the front and that kind of thing, whereas the ones trainings and the you know learning how to lead from the front and that kind of thing, whereas the ones at the top sometimes they already feel they know everything they need to know they're not always as open to new information.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah Is that? Is that one of the biggest is that where your biggest sticking point is in any organization is the people at the top, because they're like this is how we've always done it, this is the way we're going to keep doing it, because it worked when I was coming up.
Speaker 3:And yes.
Speaker 3:Yes, that's exactly right, Because this is how it worked before. You know, if you do something and it works, you're going to be more likely to lean into that. So whatever they're doing has worked well enough that they've gotten into the C-suite. They're not as likely to try and change it. The people in the middle not only do they have the opportunity to manage both up and down, which is a real skill, but they're the ones that are going to be the leaders tomorrow. They're actually close up to what's going on and they can see the damage that some of this does.
Speaker 2:So that's where my oh, I'm sure, yeah, they're young enough to they remember what it was like being at the bottom, but yet now they're in a position where, yeah, Right. That's an interesting position. You know what? I've been out of corporate for so long and I don't miss it, melissa. Honest to gosh, I don't miss it. I spent eight and a half years in the Air Force, which is not corporate. I get it, but there is a certain way of doing things right. Yeah, and then I got out and I struggled to find something.
Speaker 2:I worked like low stuff, but I was really tired. Towards the end I had been laid off three times in two years, once, twice, by the same company and when that last one came, I went. I am so tired of this. I'm tired of looking for a job. I'm trying to figure out what people want. I'm starting my own company. I said to my wife. I said what do you want to do? If you could start your own business, what would you do? She said I've always wanted to clean houses for a living and I went oh, that's sick. What is wrong with you? But no, we did, and we've been doing that since 2006. And we're the bosses Right? So yeah, I don't miss that. I am in awe of somebody like yourself who lives in that world really and can teach others how to do it better, with empathy.
Speaker 3:If they listen.
Speaker 2:yes, Well, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it think Exactly, exactly. So what would you say to anybody who's struggling with leading these days about empathy? If you had one big, honking giant megaphone that you could scream out to all of the middle managers and even the C-suite, what would you say about empathy?
Speaker 3:I would say know thyself, because a lot of of people are very much in these high powered, high profile, ambitious positions and their lives have been very driven in this way. But the worst person that gets neglected is themselves. They don't know their own emotions, they don't really understand what's going on and because of that they don't understand the repercussions. They've never taken the time to self-reflect. Charity starts at home. If you have no way of feeling empathy for yourself, how are you going to feel it for anybody else?
Speaker 2:Yep, for sure, wow. So look inside yourself. Yeah, and get in touch with that.
Speaker 3:Do it and look at the ugly stuff. If you need to have someone that will be honest with you, that will be honest with you, they can be gently honest. They don't have to be brutally honest, right. But you know, we'll tell you the truth and really understand what's happening, because you think about it. These people, because they're so driven and they, they just let themselves go last. I mean, that's why they have the substance abuse problems, that's why they have family problems, that's why they may not take care of themselves very well. They're maybe neglecting their own health and their own mental health. Well, yeah, and the thing is, too is a lot of times they get into these leadership positions not because they're a great leader, but because they can pull in the most high profile contracts, or they were the best physician, or they were the best salesman.
Speaker 3:Well, that doesn't necessarily qualify you to be the best leader.
Speaker 2:True story.
Speaker 3:But the first thing you have to do is look into yourself and say, yeah, I'm maybe not the best leader, because I drive other people as hard as I drive myself.
Speaker 2:And that rarely has a good outcome.
Speaker 3:Yeah, For anybody.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, wow. Oh, it's been so much fun talking to you, melissa. I could talk to you for hours and hours and hours to you for hours, and hours and hours, but nobody wants to listen to me drone on for hours.
Speaker 3:Well, I would, I enjoy talking to you.
Speaker 2:This is fantastic. Yeah, this is good. This is good. I'll give you that I so appreciate it.
Speaker 3:So now, do you have your own website right? I do, and it's called EQ Via VIA Empathy. And it's called that because it's a whole lot shorter than saying EQ through the lens of empathy, and we don't need any more long website names.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a huge website, www. Eqviaempathycom. That will be in the show notes and now I suppose we'll be able to find out when your book is dropping through that website.
Speaker 3:And I will be happy to let you know. I'm told the end of this month, so it's like really, really soon and I'm really hopeful. It's been kind of a long crafting thing and I'm excited.
Speaker 2:Writing is not for the faint of heart.
Speaker 3:And it's not a quick thing.
Speaker 2:No, it's definitely not quick. I think I took about a year writing my first one. But yeah, I'm looking forward to it. It'll be available on all the best bookseller sites and also Amazon.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That was not to imply that, amazon, I swear I wasn't dissing you there when I said it. I enjoy my membership very much, but, oh, thank you so much for giving us this time and for sharing your thoughts with us. I really appreciate it. I appreciate you, I appreciate what you're doing and I can't wait to do this again.
Speaker 3:Me too, Mike. Thank you so much for having me, and just I think we're. We're two people on the same path spreading the same word, so the more the merrier Amen sister yeah.
Speaker 2:Take care and we'll talk soon, Melissa.
Speaker 3:Perfect Bye-bye.
Speaker 2:What a great conversation with Melissa Robinson-Weinmiller. Dr Melissa Robinson-Weinmiller, I know she let me call her Melissa, but that's okay. Her name is Dr Melissa Robinson-Weinmiller. I've said it like five times now. It's so energetic and so uplifting. I really love the work that she's doing.
Speaker 2:Empathy is the cornerstone of kindness. Without it, there is no kindness, so I really do appreciate everything that Melissa is doing. Make sure you check out the show notes for links to her website and, of course, there you'll find her new book coming out later this month. So it's amazing. I just love conversations like that. But that will do it for this episode of the podcast. We will be back again next week, of course. Make sure you look for us and follow us on all of our socials facebook, instagram, linkedin, tiktok and there might be some others too, I don't know. Just go ahead and check those out first. In the meantime, be that person who roots for others, who tells a stranger that they look amazing and encourages others to believe in themselves and their dreams. You've been listening to the Kindness Matters Podcast. I am your host, mike Rathbun. Have a fantastic week.
